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Much uncertainty in my head started when I made my prior post about the evils of slavery, and found in nebris journal this comment left by [info]alobar, which I replied back, which in turn, [info]gear_eagle left me this comment and this comment, which opened up the doors to many of the questions I had secretly asked myself about Christianity when she provided a link to the Bible which I read, and the other to the satanic bible which I exited out immediately after reading the title.

I was brought up a Catholic, and have always considered myself a Christian. I have read the Holy Bible from beginning to end, twice in my life, and there was even a time, before I became the sometimes obnoxiously naughty girl that I am, when I was one of those Bible thumping holy rollers. Anything I read were books that dealt with religion.

It was during this time I learned of the existence of a man by the name of Anton LaVey and the satanic bible. I figured since the Christian author of the book I'd learned this from, it would be okay for me to go and buy the book, which I did. I remember opening the first page with trembling fingers, and quickly slamming the book shut, and burning it in the trash can outside, then praying to the Lord to forgive me for purchasing it in the first place! I always kept this a secret until now.

I and another nut (the CRAZY nut who has stalked me to this day) would dress in long dresses with long sleeves and collars up to our neck. She and I would go into bars with our Bibles under our armpits and quickly yell at each customer to REPENT, before we were escorted (thrown) out! This lifestyle lasted for only a year.

Since then, my views about Christianity started to change, because I realized that all the hurt feelings, and harm that I encountered in my life, came from Christians who pounded their chests in HOLY, HOLY with their fists, and is why I've always prayed to the Lord to protect me from His people! One of many examples is, thanks to the VA, when I purchased my home.

There was this couple who must have been in their 50's, who would drive by my house, each and everyday to go to morning Mass. One time this couple had a neighborhood gathering at their house, and the man started bad mouthing the U.S. I've never been one to keep my mouth shut, especially when someone bad mouths this beloved country of ours, so I told him and his wife that if they felt that way, they should move back to the country they came from. I also told him that if it hadn't been for him and his family deciding to live in the U.S., then their SIX kids would never have been able to become the Electrical Engineers they now were, since Grants had paid for ALL their education. This infuriated them, so I just left.

After this incident, this Christian couple, who practically lived in church, started saying very ugly things about me, and even going so far as to draw suspicion towards me, as to how such a young, uneducated girl like me was able to afford buying my house, and then building a large garage and apartment in my backyard. Then, the water commission contacted me to let me know that they were taking away my water rights, which most of you know just about killed me for a year, because all my trees and grass started to die. I desperately needed those rights, because I had 1 and 1/4 acre of land. Of course, in the end, I sued the city NOT for money, but to have the rights they had STOLEN from me. I won, thanks to a miracle, and my attorney. I found out that this CHRISTIAN couple was the ones who caused me to lose MY water rights in the first place. There are some of you who saw and read the post, along with the pictures during that horrible time in my life, showing the destruction that was caused to all my property. One day I'll show the link, along with pictures of how I managed to restore my own personal paradise.

Believe me, I'm ALWAYS fair, but nobody fucks around UNFAIRLY with Playgirl! Their very dangerous slander towards me continued, so I hired a well-known private investigator from my city. I will not go into that long story, but in the end, this CHRISTIAN couple quickly went into hiding by selling their house and moving to Arizona! It's kind of funny, because I know exactly where they live. I even know how much their new house cost them, the square footage, and even the EXACT layout of the outside, and inside of their new house!! Of course, they have no idea! Wonder how they'd react if I knocked on their door someday with a welcome basket of goodies?!

Although, I am a Christian, and try to go to Mass every Sunday, I've haven't accepted many of the Catholic teaching at all, and I have NEVER hidden the fact from myself, or to mere humans that I am a sinner. God knows I have my own fair share of ugly skeletons in my closet. The people that SCARE THE LIVING hell out of me are those Bible thumping religious fanatics who believe they are better than most; who have done NOTHING for humanity but point criss-cross judgmental fingers at those they don't consider their own. These hypocrites are the worst of all with they outcries of FAMILY VALUES, and the proof has been those in public life (we all know who they are) who have been exposed for perversion in one form or another.

I'll never forget the year when I was 6 years old, and had to go to catechism once a week. The nun developed hatred towards me from the very beginning. She had no reason for this, since I was an extremely shy, skin and bone little girl who cause absolutely no trouble. I spent my entire year in the corner. Just as soon as I'd walk in the door, she'd yell that I get in the corner.

One day, my grandmother asked me to do her friend a favor, and go ask the nun how her little boy was doing because they didn't know English (I didn't either, but I tried to make myself understood). I walked to the side of the building and up the 3 stairs and asked the nun about the little boy. She looked at me with so much hatred, and told me it was known of my business, and then shoved me so hard that I fell down the stairs. I never told my mother of this, or of how that nun humiliated me in front of the class, or of how I spent the entire year in a corner.

I've never forgotten that nun, and wish I could confront her now, which is impossible, because I'm sure she's already six feet under since she was already quite old when she abused me so much. If I could, I'd grab her by the hair, drag her throughout the street.

Both times I've read the Holy Bible; I've wondered why there was so much bloodshed and violence. I've also wondered why children who were born out of wedlock were called bastards; I've wondered how a man could throw out his own daughter to a perverted sexual mob in order to save the person they wanted. I've wondered how the Bible condones slavery. I've wondered about Abraham having sex with a slave, just to have a son, then right after Sara bore him a son, also, Sara because her feelings of superiority, had Hagar and her baby were cast out in the wilderness to die. I've wondered how a woman and man like this could be blessed after doing something so inhumane with poor defenseless woman and her baby.

When I read the following in a book I once read a long time ago, I was surprised again at yet another era in time of violence and sheer of hypocrisy:

"The early Puritan settlers in New England had a punishment to fit every sexual transgression: whip lashings for fornication, scarlet A's for adultery, confinement in stocks or pillory for newly married couples after the wedding. Yet despite these severities, some estimates concluded that fully one-third of the children born in late 18th century New England were conceived out of wedlock."

I fear no one, but I do fear offending the Lord by having doubts, and have kept these questions locked in my mind always. This is the first time I've opened the gates of my mind to some doubts.

As a child victim of violent crime, the thing that has kept me from going insane has been my belief in Jesus Christ. I'm starting to have doubts, and I feel that if I lose my faith in Him, I will eventually go mad.

Have you ever had doubts? Do you have any personal thoughts on this topic of religion (Christianity)?


Join The NRA
"The Right Of The People To Keep and
Bear Arms, Shall Not Be infringed."!


( 38 comments — Leave a comment )
Sep. 2nd, 2009 12:41 am (UTC)
Your Jesus is looking pretty northern European for a middle eastern jew described as having hair like a lambs and feet of bronze.
Sep. 2nd, 2009 01:14 am (UTC)
that's exactly the way ...
When I think of Him, that's exactly the way I imagine Him.
Re: that's exactly the way ... - davidkevin - Oct. 7th, 2009 09:09 pm (UTC) - Expand
Sep. 2nd, 2009 12:54 am (UTC)
Martin Luther's famous quote goes something like, "Love God? Sometimes I hate Him!" Hopefully that makes you feel a bit better.
Sep. 2nd, 2009 01:18 am (UTC)
I've never felt hatred at all for Him. It just worries when I sometimes doubt He exists.

Thank you Dave for trying to make me feel better.

Sep. 2nd, 2009 01:18 am (UTC)
I got into a huge debate with a Chaldean christian yesterday. Even though she didn't really know much about the bible, felt the right to disgree with everything I was saying about what was in the bible! Couldn't give me one damn prophecy from Revelations but feels that only a blind man couldn't see that they're all coming true.

The only way to beat a christian in the righteousness game is to know the facts, and the bible has so many flaws and is in conflict with itself at many points, that it isn't as hard to learn a few tricks.

I was raised catholic myself and was a very active member of my religion until the age of 20, and that includes 11 years of Catholic school, altar boy, usher, leader of the youth group, member of the adult group and active member of Operation Rescue (I used to march on abortion clinics). If I can discover the truth then so can anybody. I've spent the last 15 years reading obscure books and gaining obscure knowledge about judeo-christian religion.

If you ever want to hear some interesting insight, message me sometime.
Sep. 4th, 2009 12:26 am (UTC)
I also went to a Catholic school, from 1st to 8th grade.

I use to go to confession, but stopped when I realized that I was confessing to a mortal. I now confess to God directly via myself.

I've really been giving this thing a great deal of thought, and have come to the conclusion that I must believe in God in order to survive mentally. I can't help but believe, since many of the prophecies from the Book of Revelations have already come to pass.

I have a friend who is very well read in the Bible. He told me that he is already condemned, because he already had the knowledge when he decided to be a really bad party animal. This left me even more confused, because I've always been under the understanding that Jesus forgives all.
(no subject) - fourcorners - Sep. 4th, 2009 01:08 am (UTC) - Expand
Sep. 2nd, 2009 01:18 am (UTC)
Let me suggest a further bit of reading, something rather less lurid than Mr LaVey, but probably far more dangerous: The Alphabet Versus the Goddess. If nothing else, it is a very entertaining read. =)

Sep. 3rd, 2009 03:41 pm (UTC)
Thank you Devine Mr. M. for the link. I appreciate you always being around to offer help when I find myself so puzzled about one thing or another!
Sep. 2nd, 2009 02:59 am (UTC)
To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable: "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a Publican. The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this Publican. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.'

But the Publican stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'

I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.

I'm no Biblical scholar, in fact, I am very forthright in stating that I am a Christian in the sense that I believe there is a God, and Jesus is his son, not out of any deluded sense of superiority towards anyone else. But the passage above speaks volumes to me of the nature of God. Savanah, I think if you are having doubts towards God then you ought to be honest about them. God is, above all, a God of truth. And I suspect that if he does in fact exist, that he has a thorough understanding his creation.

Do you have any personal thoughts on this topic of religion (Christianity)?

Yes. Religion is one of the most destructive forces on the planet. Because it is generally a supplantation of God's will with man's. If it were necessary for Jesus to come back again (it isn't, and I understand that, but) I honestly suspect that he would be just as unrecognizable to much of the Christian church as he was to the Jews.

And he would probably be crucified all over again.

And finally, I think Christians ought to spend more time studying God's word before/than spreading God's word.
Sep. 2nd, 2009 03:48 am (UTC)
"Because it is generally a supplantation of God's will with man's."

Right on!
(no subject) - playgirl - Sep. 4th, 2009 12:58 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - prader - Sep. 4th, 2009 02:38 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - daddy - Sep. 7th, 2009 04:45 am (UTC) - Expand
Sep. 2nd, 2009 04:18 am (UTC)
I remember reading the Satanic Bible, and Promethius Rising in the same night.

My mind was completely blown.

I've never been Christian. There wasn't much religion in my family; my mom was Catholic in Germany during WWII. She was a young girl as the World was blowing up around her and the Jewish kids were being taken away (with the support of the Church). When she came here, the Catholic Church wanted papers that she didn't have, so she basically said "fuck'em." She also said something else that made alot of sense: when she would go to Church as a kid, it would be time to be alone with God, pray, etc. This is as opposed to going to a church who's primary goal and purpose is to indoctrinate new followers with THEIR words, and THEIR particular interpretations.

So I was spared an early and formative indoctrination into the Religion. (I've done plenty of research since, of course).

For you, I could see how you could be in a tough spot.

I could see how it might be hard to come to certain logical conclusions about God, particularly in the face of the emotional connection that you've developed with Christ over your life. As you say above, there's an image of Christ inside of you. You will probably never be free of Him as a powerful symbol, at the very least. You shouldn't feel the need to be free of that, because it's a fundamental part of your history and the person that you are today. On the other hand, realize that so many of the words and ideas that surround Christianity (all of them, actually) are at some level directly influenced by faulty human beings. The people DON'T have the word of God, just hopeful guesses and alot of powerful Symbolism and Cultural / Social authority.

If you are Christian, then you can be secure in your own Christ, your own Symbols, and your own Morality. There's nobody on this Earth that can tell you what God is; and if they say they have all of the answers then they're lying or misguided. Your God is Your God; really, do you think that even any two full fledged Christians have exactly the same idea of the World around them, and God? I really doubt it... IMO, take what's good, and leave the rest.

If you want to see a different perspective, stay away from Satanism, it's pretty stupid. I do highly recommend the Tao te Ching, though. It doesn't really deal with GOD, its more just like people about basic concepts in the World.


Paragraph 1:

"Even the finest teaching is not the Tao itself.
Even the finest name is insufficient to define it.
Without words, the Tao can be experienced,
and without a name, it can be known."

I've seen this translated in lots of ways, but basically it says that words can't describe God / Reality but God / Reality can be experienced nonetheless.

Anyway, that's my spiel, please just don't go mad; or if you do, come back soon. :)
Sep. 3rd, 2009 03:26 pm (UTC)
I have enjoyed reading not only the wisdom of Tao, but of Kahlil Gibran, also, so much so that I have quite a few pages in my web site dedicated to both.

It is hard for me, because I was raised a Catholic, to have come to a point in my life where I do not accept some, not all of its teachings.

I believe it is Christians that have caused me more doubt than the Bible itself, because of their lack of compassion towards others.

Thank you for you words which have helped me a great deal.
Sep. 2nd, 2009 05:43 am (UTC)
I reason that belief in God or belief that God does not exist has no bearing whatsoever on God's existence. If one believes, and God does not exist, there is no known consequence. If one believes and God exists, there is no known consequence. If one does not believe and God does not exist, there is no consequence. If one does not believe and God does exist, there is no consequence. If God is as christians have described, how COULD God mind so many who either do not believe in an image of God that is not characteristically christian or who do not believe in God at all? Is God as vain and insecure as a teenager? Who really wants to believe in a God that can't deal with nonbelievers, or with those who believe in an image of God that is "inaccurate"? An insecure God is precisely the image of God of which I'd have no part, no ritual, no faith therein. I've studied a great deal of history where atrocities of all kinds, all levels were committed. For the greatest atrocities that DID seem to attract a champion, either of circumstance or a body of people who refused to tolerate it, there are so many countless other examples in which there arose no champion of any kind.

If I had to believe in God, I'd believe in one who wasn't affronted by nonbelievers. I'd believe in one who wasn't troubled by worshipers of false images. I'd believe in one whose image either didn't coerce or didn't inspire any form of discrimination. I'd believe in one which championed reason, even at the risk of losing influence and interest among followers. I'd believe in one which did not promise favor for one people or another.
Sep. 4th, 2009 12:32 am (UTC)
I understand completely.
(no subject) - tigron_x - Sep. 4th, 2009 06:40 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - stevie_stever - Sep. 4th, 2009 12:51 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - tigron_x - Sep. 4th, 2009 06:43 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - stevie_stever - Sep. 5th, 2009 04:28 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - tigron_x - Sep. 5th, 2009 08:34 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - stevie_stever - Sep. 5th, 2009 03:39 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - tigron_x - Sep. 5th, 2009 10:11 pm (UTC) - Expand
Sep. 2nd, 2009 09:52 am (UTC)
Actually, evilbible.com isn't about a bible written by satan, it's about the evils that lurk within the bible. Have a read, and don't be afraid.

And remember, it was the great Catholic Saint, Thomas Aquinas who said "It is clear that he who adheres to the church's teachings as an infallible rule, assents to all points of that teaching."

Or in other words, if you can't believe in all of it (including the slavery, murder, child abuse, misogyny, homophobia, etc. etc.), then you can't believe any of it.

In my view, I would rather be in hell than bow at the altar of any god who would have demanded such things, even if merely in parable.

But then, that's me :D
Sep. 4th, 2009 12:12 am (UTC)
I understand why you feel as you do.
(no subject) - ayoub - Sep. 4th, 2009 10:21 am (UTC) - Expand
Sep. 2nd, 2009 02:05 pm (UTC)
I have gone from agnostic to "holy roller" and back to agnostic. Like you, I have read the Bible a few times and experienced some Christians who feel only they are "true" Christians.

I was told some years ago by a person I respected highly that many of my feelings and actions showed the love that Jesus talked about and showed to others. It was from that point on that I decided being an "official" Christian and being approved by other Christians was not important to me.

Being comfortable with myself and my ways seems to fit me best, and it seems natural to be loving and accepting towards others.

So now I am back to being me. I really am not a Christian any more.
Sep. 3rd, 2009 03:38 pm (UTC)
I have more times than not, said that I'd rather dine with a pack of wolves than many so called Christians who lack love and compassion towards their fellow man.

I have not stopped wondering about many things, and will continue to do so until I hopefully find the answer within myself. I do know one thing, and that is that I don't want to lose my love for the Lord who lives in my heart.

Thank you love for contributing your thoughts which have helped so much.
Sep. 3rd, 2009 09:02 am (UTC)
Let me see if I understand what you're saying:

Because you don't fully understand the Bible, you have doubts, and because you have these doubts, you fear you'll offend God. Is that correct?

Obviously, you haven't given up on seeking the truth. And obviously God doesn't expect you to know or else there wouldn't be scriptures to guide you. He does, however, expect people to seek the truth.

What I've always wondered about you was: why do you subscribe to Catholicism, and label yourself a Catholic, when you clearly don't believe in its teachings?

It's not a race of people. It's a belief system. A religion. And you claim it as your own, yet you don't even believe in it!

Does that mean you don't believe what scripture teaches you?

Not at all. Any "Catholic" who finds themselves truly studying the Bible, and accepts the teachings of the Bible, will seperate themselves from the Catholic Church.

Why? Because the Catholic Church fornicates with political rulers. Always has and will continue to do so until Kingdom come, literally! If you need an example, the Third Reich is a perfect example of this fornication.

Read Revelations 17 & 18. And then look at how many people in your own LJ see the abomination that Christiandom is. And most of these people who object to Christiandom don't even know scripture, yet they see the abomination that Christiandom is. They may not be able to clearly define its jurisdiciton, but they know enough to stay out of her. However, these people also cannot distinguish this false relgion from true followers of Christ. And mostly because we're all sinners, so we all fall short in some way.

Even our hearts can mislead us if we do not keep our guard up.

    Proverbs 4:23

    More than all else that is to be guarded, safe guard your heart, for out of it are the sources of life.

Sep. 3rd, 2009 03:33 pm (UTC)
There have been two Catholic priests that have loved me, as I have loved them. One was a very old one who looked like Santa Claus minus the beard. I was about eight years old then. I loved this kind old man so much, that when he had a heart attack, due to another evil priest stomping on my beloved priest's garden, I sneeked into the hospital to visit him. I use to always sit on top of this tall rock arch way entrance, and I saw the whole thing from there.

There was another when I was in my teens, and a Holy Roller. We adored each other, and would go out to eat a burger and fries ever so often. When I got deathly ill and had to go to the hospital, he would visit me each and everyday. When he became sick, I would do the same. He didn't survive.

The people, and not so much the Bible have now caused me to asked myself some questions.

Thank you my darling Tig.
(no subject) - tigron_x - Sep. 3rd, 2009 06:12 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - playgirl - Sep. 4th, 2009 01:11 am (UTC) - Expand
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Sep. 7th, 2009 04:39 am (UTC)
I just finished readongyour post and first, Thank You my dear for defending me against the one sided idiots that nebris has reading his blog. They sound so much like him, I am sure they get along very well.

I hope you have not burned Hal Lindseys books, You may nit agree with all he says but you apparently enjoyed reading them. Also Remember the teachings that you learned in the Bible. Those that were Openmed to you as you read it. NOT so much the ones that were pumped into you by the Church. I consider myself a Christian, I was born again and I accepted Christ as my personal Savior. BUT I go to no church, I have a problem with all organized religions because they all seem to bend the scriptures to their own desires. I have ben to many many of them. The Dogma of Catholicism really turns my stommach, I'll tell you one day how the Church refused to allow me to be the GodFather of a Catholic Child but a tribunal of Rabbi's cleared me to be the Godfather of a Jewish Child. I went to one church who wanted me to sign over all my posessions to them, One said I could not watch Movies or Dance, one even said it was a sin to drink while I told them the story of the Wedding in Cannan where Christ turned water into wine. Go figure.

God wants us to be good, to help others. Christ taught us to Love one another as he loved us. You epitomise what is good about the christian teachings. Your actions of taking care of those which God made, who cannot care for themselves is a true act of love. What you have done for Grandfather, Your place in Heaven has been reserved, your name has been sealed in the Book of Life.

I have traveled the world and have studied the many civilized religions and I have realized one thing.. They all basically say the same. Be good, help others and do no harm. I have even delved into Wicca and learned earth magick and explored the teachings of our native american brothers and sisters. I regularly enjoy the lodge and cleans my spirit. Does that make me any less of a Christian? Nope it dosent it makes me stronger, because I do not fall into the hipocracy of any one specific dogma. They all have jems of wisdom that allow us to live better lives.

Follow your HEART and where it leads you, if you do you will be fine. God will talk to YOU directly and not through some pompous ass who tries to make you believe what they say is right. When God speaks to you you feel it IN yoir heart not yur mind. and YES I do believe in miracles, they happen all the time I have had a few and if you look at Helen, she believes as well as she can because YOU were a miracle for her. Remember Life is too short to sweat out the silly shit!
Oct. 7th, 2009 08:46 pm (UTC)

Anton LaVey (a.k.a. Tony Levy) was a carnival and circus organist who found a gimmick which got him rich patrons and a quick ticket onto television. The Satanic Bible is only titled that for sensationalism, to sell copies.

The book is a collection of quasi-libertarian and atheistic notions, much of it cribbed from Aleister Crowley, Ayn Rand, and others. LaVey was sincere in that he believed that no other man had the right to tell him how to live, but he also dressed as he did and performed the rituals he did as a show to pull money out of the marks. He did not believe in Satan as a specific individual entity, although he liked Milton's idea for Lucifer that it was "better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." The book will not bite you, and you won't go to a literal Hell for reading it.

Given that you're a big NRA booster, you might even agree with some of it -- one of LaVey's chief fellow Satanists was Michael Aquino, a career soldier who spent most of his time in psychological warfare and military intelligence branches of the service, who retired with the rank of Lieutenant Colonel and split with LaVey, founding a group he called the "Temple of Set", because he was more sincerely religious about what he came to call Setianism than LaVey ever was about his "Church of Satan".

If you really want the inside scoop on what LaVey and the CoS were like, read Isaac Bonewits' "'My Satanic Adventure' or 'I Was a Teen-aged Satanist!'" and "'The Enemies of Our Enemies' or 'Welcome Satanists? — Are You Crazy?'"

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