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Abortion



I read somewhere that Alaska has the highest incest and rape in the country, yet Sarah Palin has let it be known, that even if her daughter had been raped, she would still not support an abortion. I was also shocked to find that agencies had been charging rape victims or their insurance companies for medical examinations for evidence against the rapist, and as Mayor Palin knew about it.

This information, which I came across a couple of days ago, has caused me so much rage and pain. Less than a handful of you know the details of being a child victim of violent crime (no, didn't get pregnant) and now most definitely consider her a woman's worst enemy.

How simple it is for this woman to dare and say that even if her own daughter had been raped and inpregnated by her rapist, she'd be against an abortion.

I realize the majority of my LJ friends are male. Wish I had more female ones for their input. QUESTION:

Let us assume Palin became President of the U.S. YOUR 13 year old daughter, or adult daughter is raped by a vicious rapist, and she becomes pregnant, would you abide by Palin's law, and force her to have the baby?

If not, what would you do, knowing full well you'd be breaking Palin's law? For those who don't have a daughter, pretend you do, and put yourselves in a father's place.

Please, I need more thoughts on this?


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Comments

( 61 comments — Leave a comment )
robdurham
Sep. 16th, 2008 09:49 pm (UTC)
I am ignorant on this issue but when was the last time a President got their way on abortion for the country. It's always a big debate topic but have any states changed their rulings on it in the last 2 decades? Like I said, I don't really know, but if someone could tell me I would appreciate it. How much does our President really influence this issue once they're in office?
playgirl
Sep. 16th, 2008 09:55 pm (UTC)
Come to think of it, I'd really like to know, too. Let's see if someone knows the answer.
(no subject) - jblaque - Sep. 16th, 2008 10:29 pm (UTC) - Expand
woman and God - playgirl - Sep. 16th, 2008 10:45 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - robdurham - Sep. 18th, 2008 08:40 pm (UTC) - Expand
nawlins_penguin
Sep. 16th, 2008 09:54 pm (UTC)
If Palin were to become President, I'd be an ex-pat before she finished the oath. And be busy building a bomb-shelter for my family, fearing her inevitable rush to the Button.

That lady scares the hell out of me. She's not just conservative. She's a fucking nut. And a dangerous one at that.
playgirl
Sep. 16th, 2008 09:58 pm (UTC)
So what?
She scares me, too. So what? Some guys find the woman sexy, and that enough for them!
(no subject) - nawlins_penguin - Sep. 16th, 2008 10:02 pm (UTC) - Expand
Maybe me?! - playgirl - Sep. 16th, 2008 10:25 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - nawlins_penguin - Sep. 16th, 2008 10:09 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - jblaque - Sep. 16th, 2008 10:30 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - playgirl - Sep. 16th, 2008 10:46 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - tomcatshanger - Sep. 17th, 2008 01:00 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - nawlins_penguin - Sep. 17th, 2008 03:49 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - tomcatshanger - Sep. 17th, 2008 04:29 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - tigron_x - Sep. 17th, 2008 10:58 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - nawlins_penguin - Sep. 17th, 2008 01:07 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - tigron_x - Sep. 17th, 2008 02:19 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - nawlins_penguin - Sep. 17th, 2008 02:44 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - tigron_x - Sep. 17th, 2008 04:52 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - nawlins_penguin - Sep. 17th, 2008 06:44 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - tigron_x - Sep. 18th, 2008 01:15 am (UTC) - Expand
i_love_tazzus
Sep. 16th, 2008 10:28 pm (UTC)
I'd leave the decision to my daughter. I would extensively discuss it, but she gets the final word.

I don't care a bit about how attractive Palin is. Anyone who thinks that way ought to have more than their heads reexamined. 8-/
playgirl
Sep. 17th, 2008 12:47 am (UTC)
That's exactly it. Discuss, and let her give the final word.
tigron_x
Sep. 16th, 2008 11:57 pm (UTC)
For starters, legislation belongs to Congress, not the President, so there really isn't much to worry about, unless the majority of elected officials in Congress are in favor of such a "law," as well as a judicial body that is sympathetic to such legislation.

The question, however, comes down to whether abortion is murder or not. Simply said, though, aborition is the ending of a life due to unnatural causes. And, that's murder.

So, would I want my daughter to suffer those 9months which would serve as a constant reminder of her brutal assult. No.

However, does she have the right to engage in the murder of an innocent life due to the brutal assult she suffered? No.

Does society have the right to penalize her for her choice? No.

Should government allow abortion clinics to legally exist? No.

Should doctors have the right to perform abortions? Yes, however, in extreme circumstances only, i.e. the life of the mother is at stake and both will die unless something is done.

Should a doctor be penalized for performing an abortion outside such circumstances? Yes.

playgirl
Sep. 17th, 2008 12:44 am (UTC)
So, an abortion is okay for a pregnant mother who could possibly lose her life? But if her THIRTEEN year old daughter is viciously attack and raped, she MUST have the rapist's baby?

Let me ask you this, what if the THIRTEEN year old daughter has the baby, only because she had no choice in the matter, as she had no choice in becoming pregnant in the first place, and it becomes a CONSTANT reminder of that vicious attack, and decides she can't handle it anymore, and commit suicide. Wouldn't you call it murder, also, murder by those who forced her into such a situation of living hell?

Really Dave, you have no earthly idea what a rape victim goes through, during the vile act, do you?
(no subject) - tomcatshanger - Sep. 17th, 2008 01:02 am (UTC) - Expand
broken bones - playgirl - Sep. 17th, 2008 01:16 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: broken bones - tomcatshanger - Sep. 17th, 2008 01:44 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: broken bones - playgirl - Sep. 17th, 2008 02:10 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: broken bones - tomcatshanger - Sep. 17th, 2008 02:24 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: broken bones - playgirl - Sep. 17th, 2008 05:23 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - tigron_x - Sep. 17th, 2008 04:50 am (UTC) - Expand
donchep
Sep. 16th, 2008 11:58 pm (UTC)
Chhill out... to quote James Carville "It's the economy, stupid". Time to get off the Alaskan Strawwoman the GOP created I like to call Bullwinkle barbie and get on the real message.

Here's something to think about to help you forget about Sarah palin (honestly it's beter to start putting her on page 2 of the news)


donchep
Sep. 17th, 2008 12:05 am (UTC)
Oh and so uou know. This thing about knowing and oking the charging of rape kits is reprehensible no matter who does it..Sarah Palin should be ashamed of herself. If you live in a state with a high rape per capita to charge a woman on top of the horrific crime and shame they have to deal with with the price of a kit to gather evidence against her attacker is utterly despicable.

I've read the story from every angle and I still can't find any excuse for justifying billing women for the investigation of crimes agains them.

But beyond that. I think Sarah Palin has become too much of a distraction from the campaign and the economy.
RESPECTFULLY YOURS - playgirl - Sep. 17th, 2008 12:33 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - playgirl - Sep. 17th, 2008 12:20 am (UTC) - Expand
manoman
Sep. 17th, 2008 01:57 am (UTC)
There's no way I would put my daughter through having to bear the child conceived by rape. That is unbelievable cruelty in my mind and there is no way that Jesus would ever condone carrying a baby conceived this way.

Isn't it traumatic enough to be raped (and especially for a minor child) without adding to it for the rest of the child's lifetime.

My personal feeling is that parents who would subject a child to this are abusing their child. Plus, they are stupid.
playgirl
Sep. 19th, 2008 03:55 am (UTC)
If I had a pre-teen who became pregnant by a rapist, I'd do everything in my power to have her have an abortion as soon as posible, whether it were legal or not. I don't believe in abortion, but in a case such as this one, I do.
daddy
Sep. 17th, 2008 03:39 am (UTC)
It amuses me that you hate her so much. I am sure that if she was not running against Obamasan, you would be very supportive of her.

As for your question, YES I would want her to carry it because it is a child, a living being and to abort it, its MURDER pure and simple. BUT it would be her decision not mine. In most states in the union it would be her decision, not the parents.

As for Palin and her feelings, If you choose to read the true statements from her and not the lies from Moveon.org and other socialist news agencies you would have learned that she stated that it is NOT an issue that the federal government sould have a hand in, it should be up to the states to decide.

It amazes me how many people who read your blog are afraid of a hockey mom, but were ready to kiss hillary's ass, and bow down to the new messiah, and even feel they can speak for Jesus.

BUT HEY>>> Thats what makes the world go around.

NOIQW I have a question for you precious.... HAve you ever read any of the books written by any of the POW's after their release? Just how much do you know about how they were treated?

If you have not read any of the books I have a suggestion for you. read "In the presence of mine enemies." You will have a brand new respect for those who were held in captivity.
playgirl
Sep. 18th, 2008 04:45 am (UTC)
POW/MIA'S
Daddy, had she run as Vice-President with Obama, I would not have voted at all. Obama doesn't need a pretty, and sarcastic front to disguise anything. The man is brilliant, and a natural orator.

All my love and respects to all of our POW/MIA'S, but I'm sorry, I just can't respect a man like McCain who brings it up in every other sentence for political gain. Enough is enough. Besides, this man hasn't been far from giving when it comes to our vets.

As for Palin, I do NOT trust her, and saw something dangerous in her from the very start. I'm glad more and more women are seeing her for what she really is. I won't go into these things, because it would take volumes.

No, I haven't read that book, but if you recommend it, I will.

I hope November comes as fast as possible, for more reasons than one!
dragynphly
Sep. 17th, 2008 05:24 am (UTC)
I don't have daughters, but as a mom I can tell you that if I did, HELL NO would I follow the law on that. I would do whatever it took to help my daughter, whatever her choice may be... As a woman I wouldn't follow that law if I were to get raped and become pregnant.

Politicians need to stay out of my uterus. Other peoples religious beliefs need to stay out of my uterus.

As a side note, in general I don't believe in using abortion as convenient birth control. But I do see pregnant because of a rape as a very valid reason for abortion.

Edited at 2008-09-17 05:25 am (UTC)
playgirl
Sep. 17th, 2008 05:49 am (UTC)
Finally a woman's view on this topic!
Finally a woman's view on this topic!

I've told a LJ friend many times, that I'm against abortion, and would never have one done if I were to ever find myself pregnant, (unless it were through rape!) but I also believe that the government does not have the right to dictate what a woman does with her body.

When a minor or an adult, becomes pregnant due to a rape, I absolutely believe that the decision should be up the girl and parents.

Now, if I had a child, and a man raped her and she became pregnant, I'd have her have an abortion immediately, and I'd track the animal down and rip him apart with my bare teeth. I know I would.
Re: Finally a woman's view on this topic! - dragynphly - Sep. 17th, 2008 08:06 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Finally a woman's view on this topic! - tigron_x - Sep. 17th, 2008 11:20 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Finally a woman's view on this topic! - dragynphly - Sep. 18th, 2008 06:56 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Finally a woman's view on this topic! - tigron_x - Sep. 18th, 2008 08:43 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Finally a woman's view on this topic! - dragynphly - Sep. 19th, 2008 07:21 pm (UTC) - Expand
Part 1 of 2 - tigron_x - Sep. 20th, 2008 12:36 am (UTC) - Expand
Part 2 of 2 - tigron_x - Sep. 20th, 2008 12:37 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Part 2 of 2 - dragynphly - Sep. 20th, 2008 07:05 am (UTC) - Expand
ayoub
Sep. 17th, 2008 06:01 am (UTC)
The abortion debate has too many shades of grey for anyone to take one or the other side without offending a great number of people...
playgirl
Sep. 19th, 2008 03:56 am (UTC)
Yes, it's a very difficult topic, since everyone has different views.
p0stmdrnpr1mt1v
Sep. 17th, 2008 12:14 pm (UTC)
HOW IS BABBY FORMED?
playgirl
Sep. 17th, 2008 02:48 pm (UTC)
Re: HOW IS BABBY FORMED?
I don't get it. :o(
Re: HOW IS BABBY FORMED? - p0stmdrnpr1mt1v - Sep. 17th, 2008 07:45 pm (UTC) - Expand
biglittlebro
Sep. 17th, 2008 03:42 pm (UTC)
On the question of abortion ... I have always been and always will be anti abortion, BUT ... I am also a realist. Were it a case of my 13 y/o daughter being raped, I would not wait to see if she did get pregnant. She would be getting a medical examination in case of physical damage, and to collect samples for the police investigations. At that same time I would be insisting on her having a curette, something I believe is mandatory in many places. Hopefully this would prevent a pregnancy. I would even go as far as a morning after pill.

IF she still became pregnant it becomes harder. I think the best situation would be to discuss the issue with the girl, see what her thoughts are and also take into account whether she may be physically developed enough to carry a child, IF she wanted to keep it. It would grieve me but if it came to a choice between my daughter and the foetus I would have to go with the best interests of my daughter.

I would like to add this. My eldest step daughter is the product of a rape. How she was conceived is not her fault. In that she is entirely innocent. I'm glad my ex resisted her parents' pressuring her to get an abortion all those years ago as Tess is a constant joy to me.
playgirl
Sep. 19th, 2008 04:43 am (UTC)
Your last paragraph left me close to tears. You and your ex are pretty extraordinary and wonderful people!
arpeggiated
Sep. 18th, 2008 08:13 pm (UTC)
Hello!

I find most abortion discussion abhorrent. They typically degrade into name calling/righteous indignation and general viciousness.

Myself - it always feels like a dichotomy. I don't believe anyone has the right to take the life of an innocent - unborn or otherwise. I also don't feel that I should be telling anyone what they ought to do with their bodies - male or female. But what if it were my daughter? What if I put aside the moral high ground and look realistically? Do I possess the courage of my convictions? I'm not certain. Not when it comes to my daughter...not when it comes to protecting her. I've never been tested...I'm not sure how well I'd pass a test if I were...though I am sure I'd lean towards her protection over most anything...especially if she's been the victim of a rape.

The very nature of deciding who has power over human life is much too large an issue for the people 'in power' to decide...those laws are typically made from the vantage points of ivory towers. The view from ivory towers as best I can tell is typically quite distorted.

I will say that I find it terribly patronizing to hear the phrase "Don't believe in abortion then don't have one' as a platitude used to argue in favor of abortion. Don't believe in murder...then don't kill someone. Don't believe in bigotry then don't discriminate against people...for which the flipside is if you DO believe in them...then it's ok because it's your belief.

The other thing I dislike is the very terms...pro choice and pro life. I'd like to think I am for both. The current climate around abortion debates would seem to make the two mutually exclusive. Call it abortion - for or against.

The solution/resolution of the abortion debate has a whole lot more to it than just yes or no (at least to me). It has to do with a lot of the socio economic reasons people have already raised. Unadopted babies. I don't know the answer. I do know that "My beliefs are why it's wrong/right" won't solve anything...

My 2 cents. (Canadian that is....so...factor in the exchange....)

Thanks if you read this.

playgirl
Sep. 19th, 2008 04:17 am (UTC)
This has been one of the most difficult posts I believe I've ever made, but Palin's comment about choosing life if her daughter were raped, struck a nerve, and ever since I made this post, I've been giving it a great deal of thought.

What you have expressed, are my exact sentiments.

Thank you so much!
diagon666
Sep. 20th, 2008 09:35 pm (UTC)
My comment on this?

If my daughter were raped, they would be having a murder trial shortly after, with me being the defendant and the rapist being the deceased. Period.

Now, I would hope that states honestly keep their laws/hands off women's bodies. Abortion? One of the biggest topics in any election, yet nothing has really been done about it since Roe Vs Wade, other than talk.

It will continue to be a hot topic every election, but yet unless some higher member of the king's (Bush's or whatever Prez gets elected) court gets raped and pregnant, nothing will change. If you go to change the laws, people will point out that it will continue to be done, but in back alleys and under unsafe conditions, yet if it's maintained, people will still keep up the rhetoric of "it's a child, not a choice" or whatever bumper sticker you've seen.

My opinion? I am pro choice, simply because I do know the realities that if someone desperately needs (in their eyes, if nothing else) an abortion, they will either get it or try some idiotic method they've heard about and it will kill them and the unborn child.
( 61 comments — Leave a comment )

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