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Reagan, Republicans, Iranian Ship Threat


Reagan, Republicans, Iranian Threat



I've been doing a lot of reading on President Reagan, and Nancy Reagan, and found that they once wanted to substitute catsup as a vegetable and relish as a fruit in school cafeterias so the government could save money on the federally-funded school lunch programs, yet Nancy Reagan was spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on expensive china, and redecorating the White House to make it look like a palace, and wearing expensive designer clothes so she could throw extravagant parties for all their friends, as all the while this country was going through a recession.

I've noticed that some of the Republican's running for president praise Reagan as having been a great president who ran a strong economy. These presidential candidates seem to have a desire to run this country as Reagan did. Am I missing something?

Please answer one or all of my questions:

1. What great strenght did Ronald Reagan bring to america. What strong economy?

2. Who do you consider the worst United States President we ever had?
OPTIONAL: Why?

3. Do you believe the Iranian ships were really threatining our ships, or is this another lie to get us into war with Iran?

I consider Bush the worst president we've ever had.




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Comments

( 91 comments — Leave a comment )
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dolston
Jan. 11th, 2008 07:47 pm (UTC)
1 - Reagan was the great communicator. He could connect with anyone. Economically he won the cold war by bankrupting the USSR before he bankrupted the USA. This made a lot of people with ties to the military industry a lot of money and put a lot of people to work.

2 - It is hard to argue against the current administration being the worst in US history though Eisenhower and Nixon did some very terible things as well.

3 - Threatening, probably. And actual threat, no. Another excuse to go to war with Iran, you and your countrymen better hope not.
playgirl
Jan. 12th, 2008 02:52 am (UTC)
Bay of Pigs
1. Reading about the catsup and relish substitution for vegetables and fruit just turned me off. One would think good nutrition for students would be a priority for better learning.

2. When you mentioned Eisenhower and Nixon, I made a Google search for Eisenhower and found this upsetting Bay of Pigs Invasion link, and now I can see why you brought them up as doing some terrible things. It saddens me that J.F.K. is mentioned there, also.

3. I thought so, and I pray we never do.

Edited at 2008-01-12 02:54 am (UTC)
nahele_101
Jan. 11th, 2008 07:53 pm (UTC)
1. I was still in diapers when he was running the place. No comment on reagan, other then I think he's an ass.

2. Bush. Hands down...

3. Its looking like it was staged. Pretty piss poor attempt at it too.

playgirl
Jan. 12th, 2008 03:00 am (UTC)
SIX french fries
1. I could never admire a president who stooped so low as to Scrooge around when it comes to student lunches, while he and his wife spend money so lavishly in the White House. Athough, I can find the link, I also read that he wanted students to have exactly SIX french fries!

2. I agree.

3. It sure did.
smjayman
Jan. 11th, 2008 07:55 pm (UTC)
Reagan ran on a platform of small government, preaching true conservatism. What we got wasn't really what we were sold, go figure. He wasn't a bad president.

It is difficult to say who the worst president was. I too find Bush abysmal, but it is easy to be biased, since we've only known a handful of presidents in our lifetimes, compared to the whole gamut of them. IMHO TJ was the best, but it is also easy to say that, I wasn't alive during his tenure in office. It was a very different time then as well.

FDR pulled some pretty crummy stunts back around 1933 when we switched from a gold backed currency to a fiat currency. They outlawed private gold ownership at that point and confiscated any that people owned unless it was jewelry.

And I believe that Iranian boat mess was just as you say, a stunt.
playgirl
Jan. 12th, 2008 03:17 am (UTC)
If it was a lie
1. I don't believe the United States has ever in history been so despised by just about every nation as it is now, and this is among many reasons why I have to say Bush is the worst.

3. If it was a lie, which I seriously suspect, then this frightens me even.
prader
Jan. 11th, 2008 07:59 pm (UTC)
1) I'm no Reagan devotee, but he did have a great personality for dealing with foreign leaders. He seemed to have little patience for bullshit games "You're taking an American cruise ship hostage? Fine. I'm sending in Delta or the SEALS to take your ass out... and I don't give a shit how much you appeal to our media establishment and acadamia to paint me as the bad guy."

The economy is another matter entirely. The Fed runs Fiscal policy regardless of which party is in office and both parties seem to adhere fairly faithfully to Keynesian (Socialist) economic policy.

2) That's a tough one since there are so many with such a strong case for it but I'd probably have to settle on Lincoln. But Bush is up there too.

3) I'm guessing either the threat was greatly exaggerated or an outright lie. But that's just a guess. And if any ship poses a true threat to our men and women in uniform I have no real issues with it being transformed into a spectacular display of fireworks.
playgirl
Jan. 12th, 2008 04:03 am (UTC)
smithereens
2. Lincoln? :o(

3. I'm pretty sure it was an exageration, or an out right lie.

As for the enemy posing a real threat to our men and women out at sea, I'm in full agreement with you that it should be blown to smithereens immediately.
Re: smithereens - prader - Jan. 12th, 2008 04:48 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: smithereens - chriswaterguy - Jan. 12th, 2008 07:09 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: smithereens - prader - Jan. 12th, 2008 07:27 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: smithereens - chriswaterguy - Jan. 12th, 2008 08:01 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: smithereens - prader - Jan. 12th, 2008 08:36 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - typewriterking - Jan. 12th, 2008 06:28 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - prader - Jan. 12th, 2008 07:12 am (UTC) - Expand
neo_prodigy
Jan. 11th, 2008 08:12 pm (UTC)
You do realize you arouse me with our calling the Republicans on their nonsense.

I consider Bush the worst president we've ever had.


Which one. I'm assuming you mean Dubya and I agree wholeheartedly.

While I despise his father, he was at least remotely qualified to run the country and at least he was smart enough to listen to Colin Powell and his other advisors on issues.
playgirl
Jan. 12th, 2008 04:05 am (UTC)
I do
1. I do. :o)

2. Me, too. :o)

3. Why don't you like his father?
Re: I do - neo_prodigy - Jan. 12th, 2008 04:07 am (UTC) - Expand
fourcorners
Jan. 11th, 2008 08:23 pm (UTC)
Reagan is seen as the great republican president, because a lot of good results happened on his watch. He's seen as the one who ended the Cold War, and will be remembered as the one who demanded the Berlin Wall to be torn down. In truth, he was lucky, for the arms race we were in bankrupted Russia eventually and devastated their economy. We just outlasted the Ruskies. That's not the example of a great president, for if Russia had the bankroll to keep the race going, it might have been Bush Sr. who would be credited at ending the war, or, God forbid, Clinton (the GOP would never accept that). Reagan's arms race put this country is great debt, but it's a debt we could afford at the time. It was eventually paid off in Clinton's term. Reagan sold out this country's future to deal with an arm's race that was so pointless and counterproductive that it's almost laughable now. If your country has the means to blow up the other country 10 times over, what's the point in making it 15 times over? Is it worth going into debt just because the other country can blow us up 20 times over? Dead's dead and neither side wanted to start the war. One could say that Reagan's fiscal responsibility was lacking, same as one could say that Bush's fiscal responsibility is also lacking.

Other than that, his track record is lousy. His 'trickle down' theory didn't work. He made no effort to protect the environment ("you see one tree, you've seen them all" or something was a Reagan quote). He said that catsup was considered a vegetable (when criticized the poor children weren't getting enough nutrients). He was a roadblock to the budding AIDS crisis. And let's not forget the Iran-Contra scandal, where he conveniently answered "I forget" to most questions.

In a different era, such as this one, Reagan would have been as bad as Bush. But the 80s were a prosperous time without much happening on the world front that involved the US, unless you count the Cold War, which to many people was just a lingering fear of nuclear war. Political issues were few and things were simpler, in comparison to now. Partisan politics weren't vicious.
playgirl
Jan. 12th, 2008 04:46 am (UTC)
Iran-Contra Affair
Thank you for taking the time to teach me so many things, and because of you, I looked up the Iran-Contra Affair. Now I see why Reagan would answer, "I forget" when asked about it!
(no subject) - typewriterking - Jan. 12th, 2008 06:36 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - fourcorners - Jan. 14th, 2008 06:21 am (UTC) - Expand
moon_shine
Jan. 11th, 2008 08:26 pm (UTC)
Did you know
Did you know they had a foster kid and they never ever gave him his own room they made him sleep on the sofa?

1.What great strengths did Ronald Reagan bring to America. What strong economy? To tell you the truth the Republican's like bush because he was a strong conservative and his trickle down policy made a lot of RICH PEOPLE RICHER AND nothing EVER DID trickle down TO THE POOR. SO I SAY NOTHING! HE MADE greed A GOOD WORD to many :o( it just MADE ME SICK!

2. Who do you consider the worst United States President we ever had?
OPTIONAL: Why? Bush – Bush and Reagan

3. Do you believe the Iranian ships were really threatening our ships, or is this another lie to get us into war with Iran? The CIA is at it one more time what I found funny was the recording we heard on tv saying they where going to ram the ship, when the Iranians showed there video tape of the conversation the pentagon said that on our tape they did not know where the voice came from? I do they put it on come on how dumb do they think we are we can all do that on our PC's and do A better job of it I might Add =o) I just do not know why they want the war to keep going I guess maybe because they are making so much Money off of it !

Hope your having a great day Sunshine remember to vote For me!! ;o) wink wink


Edited at 2008-01-11 09:25 pm (UTC)
playgirl
Jan. 12th, 2008 04:53 am (UTC)
Re: Did you know
Any man who tries to penny pinch when it comes to student's lunch, and he himself eats quail from expensive china, is heartless.

Oh, I won't forget! :o)
Re: Did you know - moon_shine - Jan. 13th, 2008 10:29 pm (UTC) - Expand
dirtywhiteboi
Jan. 11th, 2008 08:41 pm (UTC)
In my lifetime, the current Bush for being a lying sack of idiotic shit that has nearly the whole world hating us, tens of thousands of our soldiers murdered/mamed because of his lying and our country smothering in debt all to the detriment of the middle and lower classes while the rich are simply getting richer on his watch!

dirt
playgirl
Jan. 12th, 2008 05:02 am (UTC)
sleep
I've often wondered how the man can sleep at night!

I keep counting the days for November so this country can once again have hope.
ubet_cha
Jan. 11th, 2008 08:43 pm (UTC)
Carter was the worst.
Carter was the worst president in my memory. He may have been the best person, but sucked as a leader. I think you’d have to experience the feel of it to really get how bad things were in the late 70's. Shortly before Carter took office we had stuck our tails between our legs and left Vietnam, something many people still couldn’t get their minds around. Then there was Watergate and the oil reduction from Opec.. America was already going through a painful reality check.

When Carter took office in 1977, he received a moderately growing economy in which inflation was 5.4 percent and interest rates were around 8 percent. When he left office in early 1981 inflation was in the double digits and interest rates were so high ( The prime rate hit 21.5%) it was impossible for Americans to finance large purchases like homes and cars.

The American military had been gutted by the administration's post-Vietnam cutbacks, and this was highlighted by the failed rescue attempt of the hostages in Iran.

His abandonment of the Shah ( Who –btw- was a monster) was handled so poorly that it left a huge power vacuum and enabled a bloody revolution. I’m not criticizing the decision, I’m criticizing its execution.

The energy crisis around 1979 was terrible. Gas stations frequently ran out of gas. Lines to the pumps would extend ½ of a mile down the road. In Maryland, our governor H. Hughes passed an order that forced car owners to get gas only on the days that were odd for tags that ended in an odd number, or even days if their tags ended in an even number.

Many of these problems began before Carter took office, however he was in the lead man when they came to a head and naturally was blamed for it. Much of the country was in a huge ‘emotional’ depression, especially working class families that began to see manufacturing jobs disappear.

Now what I liked about Carter were the SALT treaty, the Camp David Peace Accord, his stance of Human Rights and the pressure he put on Rhodesia, his efforts to control Pork Barrel spending. All good stuff.

The single personal grief I have with his administration, if you consider all of the above a national grief after he only won 6 states in the 1980 election, is that they canceled the mandatory transition to the metric system that Ford had started. What a shame.


http://economics.about.com/cs/macroeconomics/a/presidency_3.htm

Edited at 2008-01-11 08:44 pm (UTC)
ubet_cha
Jan. 11th, 2008 08:49 pm (UTC)
Regan's economy was the best.
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=4798

Regan’s wife was an asshole and his adminstrations desire to rate Ketchup as a vegetable because it had the same nutrional value as one aside he did oversee a great economy and tremendous recovery. There’s no getting away from that.
Re: Carter was the worst. - playgirl - Jan. 12th, 2008 05:27 am (UTC) - Expand
spiritualmonkey
Jan. 11th, 2008 08:50 pm (UTC)
1) Reagan made Americans who were desperate to feel proud and good about their country do so (regardless of whether there was cause for pride).

When I think Reagan, I think Central American death sqauds.

2) W.
2a) Iraq (with completely bungling Afghanistan a close second).

3) The Iranians are not that stupid.

On the other hand, the Gulf of Tonkin incident was a bullshit naval encounter that basically got us into Vietnam, so lying to the American public about an attack on our forces so we can start a war is nothing new. "Remember The Maine" and all that.

Make no mistake, we're attacking Iran. This year, before they leave office.

Assuming we have elections and martial law isn't declared before November.



Edited at 2008-01-11 08:52 pm (UTC)
playgirl
Jan. 12th, 2008 05:44 am (UTC)
1. Central American death sqauds?

3. No, I can't imagine Iranians being stupid!

The Youtube video isn't available anymore. :o(

Is it possible we'll be attacking Iran before November?!
Our tax dollars at work - spiritualmonkey - Jan. 12th, 2008 06:48 am (UTC) - Expand
donchep
Jan. 11th, 2008 08:57 pm (UTC)
I don't like picking on Nancy. It was not from the tax coffers, so it doesn't matter. And the way she stood by Ron when he was dying from his alzheimer's was very touching. I think Reagan was terrible in the sense that he ushered in a god awful era where the religious right got too
much power.

I get the "myth" and legendary aura that surrounds him because he always seemed to say the right thing to get the reaction he wanted. Is he the worst president? Hardly.

In fact, I don't even hate him. I just think people need to follow the timeline of the rise in homelessness, lack of help with AIDS crisis, etc and balance wiht the things they do like about him.

Worst president? Bush, hands down and with much pondering on some others I've read about. 8 years without any popular legislation except for a tax cut that most of us have forgotten about already.

An entire presidency with little world diplomacy, a dollar that that has been surpassed by the Canadian Loony for the first time in decades, an extremely unpopular war, a cabinet full of imbeciles, crooks, and cynical bastards, the Patriot act, torturers, etc.

playgirl
Jan. 12th, 2008 03:24 pm (UTC)
Homelessness and Aids crisis-Opps wasn't logged in

I admire her for standing by her man, but isn't that what a wife is suppose to do? "In sickness and in health, 'til death do us part." My heart does go out for her, because of the Alzheimer her husband suffered.

I just now read that the china that cost $210,300. Sure, the tax payers didn't fork out the bill, but I don't think it was proper for her to accept private donations for something as frivolous as china, AND designer dresses. After all, the country was going through a recession.

I also read that that she was a very stingy woman when it came to giving gifts, and was called Dragon Lady, and because of her extravagant spending on clothes and other things, she was also called Queen Nancy.

When I made this post, it got me to reading about other presidents, (you got me interested in this topic) and I too, wouldn’t place Reagan among our worst presidents.

Was there a rise in homelessness, and did he not help with the AIDS crisis during his administration?

Oh yes, Bush has to be the worst one we’ve had so far! It really irks me when he gives speeches, because his mannerisms and the way he talks, makes it seem as though he’s talking to stupid little children who just don’t get it.
marc17
Jan. 11th, 2008 09:01 pm (UTC)
IMHO, to look at Reagan, you first have to look at Carter and where Carter failed.

Carter was actually an alright guy. He was intelligent, had a plan, and put it into action. He wanted to end the cold war and put the world at peace. He got a good start with Israel early in his term, and the went to work with the US. He could see that the cold war was leading the USSR into doom. They had to keep up but couldn't and their economy would collapse if they kept up the arms race. Carter's plan was to cut back on spending, ease off the cold war, and hopefully the USSR would take the opportunity to do the same and get their economy in shape. Instead, they invaded Afganistan while the US was in no position to do anything about it even if we had really wanted to. Add in the revolution in Iran and the energy crisis, and Carter was doomed.

In comes Reagan. The hostages are released on his inauguration. They oil crisis is no longer a crisis, and he ramps up defense like nobodies business. Reagan also had had a plan which was almost exactly the opposite of Carter. He was going to ramp up spending to the point that the USSR would collapse just trying to play catch up. He invented new stuff like Star Wars that never had any hope of being real, but we had the money to waste on research like that but was just another drain on the USSR's budget. In the end, the USSR reached a point where they were headed to collapse with most of the Warsaw countries ready to bail. They had the choice to either have the war between capitalism and communism right then and there, or let it collapse. Luckily, they didn't opt for war (and they really didn't honestly have a chance of winning at that point as the first people they'd have to fight was their own allies).

To be honest, while the economies did have a part in all that, I don't think that presidents really have anything to do with it. The economy goes through cycles and I think the presidents just suffer through them and get hit either luckily or not. Their powers are pretty well defined and most everything they do has to be ok'd by congress. Their biggest power is to appoint people, especially supreme court judges who then go and then enforce the laws and even define them. A good president has some power over congress and can sway them, but the power still mainly resides in the congress.

Worst President? That's a hard one. In the past, there are some presidents we had that treated the position as their own personal playground. They appointed friends and family, used the office as funding for their vacations and actually did little work, as opposed to presidents like Clinton who had a plan, did it well, but it just didn't work out.

I suspect that the Iranian ships were messing with our ships. Our ships probably mess with theirs. It's one of those things that countries do. In the cold war and even I bet now, our and Russian planes are flying into each other's airspace just to test the other's response time. We do the same with China such as that plane that collided with one of theirs and had to emergency land in China. Thing is, we have been bombed by such small boats before, and their's always a chance those weren't actual Iranian ships and were terrorists. When a small boat comes careening towards your warship really fast, way past where they should be, the captain is going to have to make a split second desision as to whether it's a bomb that is attacking his ship (like the Cole) and needs to be stopped, or the Iranians just giving us grief and just bearing it and letting it go to political channels.
marc17
Jan. 11th, 2008 09:34 pm (UTC)
Rosalynn Carter - playgirl - Jan. 13th, 2008 04:49 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Rosalynn Carter - marc17 - Jan. 13th, 2008 06:46 pm (UTC) - Expand
poetpaladin
Jan. 11th, 2008 09:17 pm (UTC)
"While Senator, Gore twice attempted to get the U.S. government to pull the plug on support to Saddam Hussein, citing Hussein's use of poison gas, support of terrorism, and his burgeoning nuclear program, but was opposed both times by the Reagan and Bush administrations. In the wake of the Al-Anfal Campaign, during which Hussein staged deadly mustard and nerve gas attacks on Kurdish Iraqis, Gore cosponsored the Prevention of Genocide Act of 1988, which would have cut all assistance to Iraq. The bill was defeated in part due to intense lobbying of Congress by the Reagan-Bush White House and a veto threat from President Reagan."

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Gore


Edited at 2008-01-11 09:18 pm (UTC)
playgirl
Jan. 12th, 2008 03:26 pm (UTC)
info
Wow! Thank you for this information!
uglyface2
Jan. 11th, 2008 09:22 pm (UTC)
1. Hm. Well, I know some things that happened while Reagan was president, although I'm not sure how much he had to do with them (I was more interested in the Nintendo Entertainment System). I do know that early on, he formulated energy policies that resulted in OPEC's lowering the price of oil, which greatly improved a nasty energy crisis. Truthfully, I can't tell you a damn thing he did with respect to the economy itself because I didn't care.

2. Worst president? I can't say anything overall, but economically, I'm not fond of Calvin Coolidge. Sure, we hear a lot about the "Roaring Twenties", but then Herbert Hoover gets dumped on because of the Great Depression. Newsflash: economic policy takes time to bear fruit. I can only state that there wasn't enough time between Coolidge and Hoover for anything Hoover did to warrant Black Friday.

3. I don't know. I didn't follow the story, mostly because I didn't care.
playgirl
Jan. 13th, 2008 01:11 am (UTC)
Calvin Coolidge
I still don't care for Reagan. Had it not been for his silliness on the catsup and relish, I might feel differently.

Just read about Calvin Coolidge, and unlike most of the others, didn't find too many bad things about him.
jasonecaesar
Jan. 11th, 2008 09:26 pm (UTC)
Hrm...
I can't really say who is the worst president (as I'm only 24), but the worst of my generation would have to be Bush.

You know, Regan once said that trees are the cause of Carbon Dioxide. Figure that one out.
playgirl
Jan. 12th, 2008 04:16 pm (UTC)
Re: Hrm...
I feel he is, too.

I think the Alzheimer's was in its beginnings when he said carbon dioxide instead of carbon monoxide.
Re: Hrm... - jasonecaesar - Jan. 14th, 2008 04:52 am (UTC) - Expand
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