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Scooter Libby Question



Please! I realize this is old news, but I’m so confused!

What exactly did Scooter Libby do wrong?
Bush pardoned Scooter Libby. In your opinion, was it right or wrong for Bush to have pardoned him? Why?

7-13-2007 UPDATE: I'd like to add the Youtube video of another one of my heroes to add to my list, Keith Olbermann here, also, because he moved me as I've never been moved!

Olbermann on the Scooter Libby sentence commutation



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Comments

( 54 comments — Leave a comment )
ytterbius
Jul. 13th, 2007 12:12 am (UTC)
No, it's not old news!
It's not old news, Bush would just like people to think that.

Example, was the sentence commutation so long ago? No, it was just a couple weeks ago. Has Bush Fired any leakers from his cartel as he promised to do? No he hasn't. It's not old news at all, it's ongoing, and rightly so.


Scooter Libby lied under oath among other things, presumedly (certainly) to protect those guilty of criminally leaking the name of an undercover CIA Operative.

Of course, it was wrong for Bush to Commute the Sentence because Libby was guilty of a crime. It just so happens, though that the crime that Libby was guilty of was directly related to the fact that Libby was covering up for other Bush Administration crimes.

Bush is a fucking Crook... actually, he's a fucking dangerous crook.


Sorry for my language, I hope I don't offend your delicate sensibilities, but this group of people really pisses me off.
playgirl
Jul. 13th, 2007 02:49 am (UTC)
Re: No, it's not old news!
I just found "Bush addresses the Libby commutation" on Youtube where Bush is asked two questions. Am I stupid or something, because I hear Bush answer his questions, but I just can't for the life of me, pin point what the answers were?!!

Here's the Youtube video I speak of:
Re: No, it's not old news! - ytterbius - Jul. 13th, 2007 04:31 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: No, it's not old news! - playgirl - Jul. 13th, 2007 04:54 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: No, it's not old news! - ytterbius - Jul. 13th, 2007 05:13 am (UTC) - Expand
darkphoenixrisn
Jul. 13th, 2007 12:14 am (UTC)
Libby was convicted by a jury of obstruction of justice, perjury, and making false statements to federal investigators. Also, Bush didn't pardon him, he commuted part of his sentence. Even then, it was a blatant case of political cronyism.
marc17
Jul. 13th, 2007 02:06 am (UTC)
Yes, but Bush did say he still might pardon Libby, but is waiting for the appeals process to end first.

People are particullarly upset because when all this started, Bush said he'd see that justice was carried out, but here he is letting guilty parties off the hook who just happen to be his own men. Somehow I don't think anybody would believe that Bush would be commuting sentences due to overly harsh sentencing if the guilty person was a democratic lacky.

Note, not that the last Democratic president (and many others) didn't also use their pardon powers for friends, however the tradtional thing to do is make it one of your last thing to do before leaving office. I suspect we'll see lots of pardoning in the last 48 hours of this presidency.
(no subject) - darkphoenixrisn - Jul. 13th, 2007 04:43 am (UTC) - Expand
adameros
Jul. 13th, 2007 12:58 am (UTC)
Libby committed perjury and also exposed a covert U.S. CIA agent.

This naming of the agent has put at risk every person she had contact with.

Personally, I'm upset Rove and Co. were not arrested as well.
playgirl
Jul. 13th, 2007 03:21 am (UTC)
What lead to all of this coming out in the first place? Why did he feel he had to expose her? Was it a slip or was it intentional?

(no subject) - adameros - Jul. 13th, 2007 03:48 am (UTC) - Expand
and also exposed a covert U.S. CIA agent - justgoto - Jul. 13th, 2007 06:17 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: and also exposed a covert U.S. CIA agent - playgirl - Jul. 13th, 2007 04:43 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: but I found this link where - justgoto - Jul. 14th, 2007 05:02 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: and also exposed a covert U.S. CIA agent - daddy - Jul. 13th, 2007 08:32 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: love your icon!!! - justgoto - Jul. 14th, 2007 05:04 am (UTC) - Expand
uglyface2
Jul. 13th, 2007 01:14 am (UTC)
You'll hear it a lot, but the charges included lying under oath. The charges, despite what the previous poster stated, did not include the actual "outing" of Valerie Plame -- that was done by Richard Armitage, and even then, it wasn't a crime.
nebris
Jul. 13th, 2007 05:40 am (UTC)
Disclosing the identity of a covert CIA operative is a federal crime. The statute was enacted, ironically enough, under the Reagan administration.

~M~
(no subject) - uglyface2 - Jul. 13th, 2007 03:03 pm (UTC) - Expand
daddy
Jul. 13th, 2007 02:06 am (UTC)
ok Uglyface2 is dead on. but lets look even closer at what happened. He is correct that Richard Armitage "outed" Valerie Plame. but what has not been said is that the bitch for over a year had been gouing to DC partys trying to be important by saying that she works for the CIA. SHE "Outed" Herself.

Now is that a crime NO because she was NOT and never has been a secret operative. The Law says its a crime to out someone who is an operative for the CIA. SHE ISN'T

Next when Libby was questioned he was asked a series of obscure questions that had nothionmg to do withj why he was questioned. then three days later they asked him similar questions again that had nothing to do with why he was subpoened. His answers were not exactly the same and on one he said he did not remember. (that is the same answer Hillary gave when she was asked about her dealings with the Rose Law Firm.)

So in effect the charges should have never been filed or allowed to be filed.

Next the sentence was commuted which means the charges will stay on his record, he is still "guilty" or a non-crime, but just the prison time will not have to be served. Libby still plans on an appeal of the guilty sentence. His atty. requested that he be allowed to stay out of jail during the appeal but the Democrat judge refused.

Would someone like to guess how many full pardons Clinton "sold" during his last days in office?? A SHIT LOAD! and no one raised hell about them....

but as for your question should Bush have Commuted Libby's sentence?? NO not at least until he gave full pardons to two Border Guards and a Deputy Sheriff who were found guilty of doing their jobs of trying to protect our Country from illeagle drug smuggeling aliens.




spiritualmonkey
Jul. 13th, 2007 05:08 am (UTC)
He is correct that Richard Armitage "outed" Valerie Plame. but what has not been said is that the bitch for over a year had been gouing to DC partys trying to be important by saying that she works for the CIA. SHE "Outed" Herself.

Citations please?

Now is that a crime NO because she was NOT and never has been a secret operative. The Law says its a crime to out someone who is an operative for the CIA. SHE ISN'T

Ummm.... absolutely wrong. Factually incorrect, and not reflecting of the reality presented in official court documents based on information provided by the CIA on Valerie Plame's employment status:
At the time of the initial disclosure in the media of Ms. Plame's employment relationship with the CIA on 14 July 2003, Ms. Wilson was a covert CIA employee whom the CIA was taking affirmative measure to conceal her intelligence relationship to the United States
Playgirl:

-The Cheney/Rove administration wanted war with Iraq and were gaming up the intelligence to make it look like Saddam Hussein's WMD programs were still active, when in fact they were pretty much neutralized already (notice how many we've found there).

-Cheney's intelligence group at the Pentagon got a bullshit story about Iraq trying to buy Uranium from Niger. Ambassador Joe Wilson, who knew Niger, was sent as an envoy to investigate. It also happens that his wife, Valerie Plame was a covert CIA agent tracking WMD's.

-Ambassador Wilson found nothing whatsoever to substantiate the story and said so. But in the infamous State of the Union Speech, Bush asserted that there was indeed a link between Niger and Iraq.

-Ambassador Wilson called bullshit on what Bush said in the State of the Union speech in a NYT opinion piece.

-SOMEONE, probably Cheney, maybe Bush, authorized White House agents to smear Ambassador Wilson through attacking his wife. It is believed in many corners that this was done as a warning to other intelligence agents: Don't fuck with Cheney, do not contradict the administration line, or we will blow the cover you spent years developing.

-It is also believed that because Ms. Plame's status as a CIA agent was revealed, that a foreign asset of the US was exposed and killed. There's a new star on the wall at Langley. No one can confirm who it is that got killed in action, but it falls within the right time frame to have been one of Plame's contacts that got killed for being revealed.

-Patrick Fitzgeraled is brought in a special prosecutor to investigate who did the leaking (established as a criminal act), and who authorized it.

-Scooter Libby, Cheney's #1 man, lied to to investigation. He threw smoke and made it impossible for Fitzgeraled to properly investigate who blew the cover of a covert CIA agent. For this obstruction of the judicial process, he was convicted of his crimes.

-Bush then made sure that Libby spent no time in jail so that he would not be tempted to rat on his superiors, whom he was defendig with his perjury and obstruction of justice.

-Scooter Libby should be hung as a traitor. But not before they find out who gave him the thumbs up.

At least, that's my take on it.
(no subject) - playgirl - Jul. 13th, 2007 06:48 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - spiritualmonkey - Jul. 13th, 2007 07:08 pm (UTC) - Expand
Also... - spiritualmonkey - Jul. 13th, 2007 07:44 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - daddy - Jul. 13th, 2007 09:18 pm (UTC) - Expand
Cue the X-Files Theme - spiritualmonkey - Jul. 13th, 2007 10:13 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Cue the X-Files Theme - daddy - Jul. 13th, 2007 11:42 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - daddy - Jul. 13th, 2007 08:48 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - spiritualmonkey - Jul. 13th, 2007 09:34 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - playgirl - Jul. 13th, 2007 05:35 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - daddy - Jul. 13th, 2007 08:59 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - spiritualmonkey - Jul. 13th, 2007 09:53 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - daddy - Jul. 13th, 2007 11:52 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - spiritualmonkey - Jul. 14th, 2007 12:19 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - nebris - Jul. 13th, 2007 05:48 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - daddy - Jul. 13th, 2007 08:30 pm (UTC) - Expand
moon_shine
Jul. 13th, 2007 03:59 am (UTC)
I think bush was wrong and he should have been in jail right next to him.
bakapooh
Jul. 13th, 2007 04:04 am (UTC)
I know the answers but i won't talk politics,it always ends up in name calling and really beyond reason hatred like some of the replies you've gotten.

Never talk about religon or politics is my motto :)
moon_shine
Jul. 13th, 2007 04:55 am (UTC)
At work we had the same Motto but Here is one more thing that we added to it, “never talk about someone's wife and witch one of us slept with her last night ;o) you know that kept things pretty calm most of the time ;)
(no subject) - bakapooh - Jul. 13th, 2007 04:58 am (UTC) - Expand
duoraven
Jul. 13th, 2007 05:23 am (UTC)
It's good ta be the king
First, just to restate, even though people have said it already, President Bush did not pardon him, but rather commuted his sentence.

Was he "wrong" to do it? That's a tough question. Strictly Speaking, Article II, Sec 2 of the Constitution simply states "he shall have power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment."

There's absolutely no qualifier--in fact, a plain reading of the text implies people are guilty and justly sentenced, but the president has the authority to pardon or commend the sentence.

Assume the following:
A man is found over the body of a murdered man. He is holding a knife that matches the injuries on the body, 20 witnesses saw him do it, and when the police arrived he cried out many times "I'm glad I killed the bastard." He is found guilty and sentenced to prison.

The President has the full power to pardon him. Part of living in a republic is putting trust in officials, so we trust that no president would do such a thing.

But obviously, Libby's situation is different. I'm a bit torn on it. I cannot help but feel that Libby was made out to be a sacrificial lamb: I think President Bush's opponents looked for any opportunity to embarrass or shame the administration, and I think that Libby might have been willing ultimately to "take one for the team."

My feelings for this view are not based on partisanship, but rather the extent to which Libby and the administration were raked over the coals on this issue. I don't know, sadly, enough of the details regarding Valerie Plame's exact status and operations. I do know that rather than end up in a gulag, or something like that, she's set to make millions in book and movie deals.

Fairness and justice are issues I struggle with constantly.
fourcorners
Jul. 13th, 2007 07:23 am (UTC)
Re: It's good ta be the king
The truth is that he really didn't do anything that terribly bad, by today's lax criminal standards. The Democrats wanted to crucify Cheney, but Scooter took one for the team and the buck ended with him. The donkeys weren't able to get Cheney, so they gave Libby as harsh a punishment as they could, out of principle. Bush pardoned him because it was a really heavy penalty for simply skating around the truth. However, what Bush and his administration didn't realize was that America wanted to see Cheney fall and realized that the closest they'd get was Libby, and pardoning him merely makes it look like the Bush administration and cronies can do what they want without regard to justice. The public is pretty upset about this administration's above-the-law behavior, and it'll probably cause the Republicans some damage at some point. That's what happens when you're not in touch with the American people.

Course, the American people are kind of annoyed by the Democrats and their inability to grow a pair of balls and stand up to Bush. They, time and time again, play politics and try and ride as many fences as possible without making a stand, and that kind of wuss attitude is precisely what America hates about the Democratic party.

It's far-fetched, but in an ugly political climate as this, maybe a third party candidate may climb to the top of the polls. Unlikely, but hey, wouldn't that be pretty cool?
harley1456
Jul. 13th, 2007 02:53 pm (UTC)
Most of what I would have said has already been stated, except.....

This is WAY bigger than Libby, this is a question of what happens when a civil servant trys to tell the President the TRUTH about the reasons we should NOT have gone to war.

Not only did the administration IGNOR the truth, but they PUNISHED those who told it. AND he has the gall to say that he can't have his aides talking to congress because he need to ensure FRANK opinions from his staff.....total BULLSHIT....he only want AFFIRMING opinions.

ON top of all that, this deeply immorral act has killed 3000 american soldiers and perhaps hundreds of throusands of Iraqs.

Bush took us into a war when is wasn't nessesary.........I can't think of a greater sin. This Libby thing is the only thing they have been able to pursure and that is why it is important....
moon_shine
Jul. 13th, 2007 07:04 pm (UTC)
I LOVE YOU SUNSHINE! ;o)
Hope your having a great day:)
playgirl
Jul. 14th, 2007 01:42 am (UTC)
Jalapeño Popper
Love you too, my little Jalapeño Popper with extra creamy cheese inside! :o)
Re: Jalapeño Popper - moon_shine - Jul. 14th, 2007 03:35 am (UTC) - Expand
donchep
Jul. 13th, 2007 09:29 pm (UTC)
A lot of the Libby apologists will come out and make the claims as TRUTH that Plame was not covert and even claim as TRUTH that Plame outed herself. None is proven.

In fact the argument about how covert she was is only in terms of Intelligence Identities Protection Act and not in the standards of the CIA itself. As far back as the Waxman hearings she's been considered covert by CIA standards. Shouldn't that be good enough for us? The CIA did not state she was not a CIA agent that is not a FACT.

And people who justify a potential pardon because of Clinton's pardon of Rich are just practicing moral relativism and sweeping what is clearly and obviously an act that is another egregious example of an administration that is skirting the edges of what is criminal in every standard of law we are supposed to uphold.



daddy
Jul. 14th, 2007 12:04 am (UTC)
Little one...
I know you are reading everyones posts and either seeing the truth buried somewhere in the mass or are getting even more confused.

Among those who are devoted to your site, you have those who are far left and far right. You have socialists and capitalists, antagonists, those who wanna build and those who wanna destroy. You have Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians and possibly maybe a Communist or two.

We all feel we are right in our beliefs and know that those who think differently are nuts.
All you can do is read everything and let your common sense tell you which is more correct than the other.

One thing I know that you are already aware of is that We still live in the best country on earth, that is why everyone else is trying to get in here to live and work, or is jealous that we are who we are and are trying to destroy us...
playgirl
Jul. 14th, 2007 01:06 am (UTC)
Re: Little one...
Daddy, These politicians in high power, who I once viewed as intelligent, compassionate men of honor and integrity, are nothing more than deceitful and ruthless liars and cheats who have stooped down to whatever level it takes to attain POWER AND the almighty dollar. I don’t know who to believe anymore; I suddenly trust no one in office.

I feel deflated. I see the U.S. all broken down into tiny little pieces, so much so that all the Crazy glue in the world, will never glue each piece back together again. I don’t believe we live in a democracy anymore, for all I see now is a country run by a dictator!

I hate the manner in which this man addresses HIS subjects from his throne; I hate those little smirks he gives when someone asks him a question that he doesn’t like, and the rude and flippant manner in which he answers the question. I hate the things he’s done, behind our backs, with our Constitution. I hate the way he constantly tries to shove fear and hatred down our throats. I hate the fact that we are suddenly DISPISED by just about every single country in the world! I hate the fact that there are two separate laws, one for the rich and powerful, and another one for people just like you and me. With all my heart and soul, I miss the trust and safety I once felt, and the powerful patriotism I use to feel. I don’t believe I’ll ever feel it again.

Emiliano Zapata once wrote, or was it Ché Guevara?...
“I’d rather die on my feet, than live on my knees.” I never fully understood what these famous words meant, but now I do, and that is exactly how I feel. I’m sick of being fed all these fear tactics. If I’m to die by a terrorist’s hand, let it be, because I refuse to live for the rest of my life, like a sniveling coward on my knees! What I find most frightening of all is the fact that I am not afraid of the terrorist anymore; I am terrified of those POWERS that are running our beloved country.

I’m in mourning. There’s a vomit in the pit of my stomach, and it won’t go away.
nishar
Jul. 14th, 2007 12:18 am (UTC)
In a nutshell, he leaked the identity of an active American agent who was a big homcho in stopping foreign governments from developing nuclear weapons. So by outing her, Chenny's bag man Libby probably got a bunch of people working for us through the agent he outed killed and if a nuke ever goes off in one of our cities and it was planted by a terrorist group, Chenny and Libby bear some resposability for that event. Libby should have been shot as a traitor in my book. Bush probably will pardon hom on the last day of office. He did this so Libby wouldn't sing, brining down Dick Chenny and maybe even his own ass too.
dolorinterno
Jul. 16th, 2007 07:20 pm (UTC)
hi, i hope you dont mind me adding you. Anarch recommended you. You seem like a very interesting read!
playgirl
Jul. 17th, 2007 12:35 am (UTC)
[info]anarch is quite a special guy!

Thank you, I've added you, also!
Abrazos Amiga linda! :o)
( 54 comments — Leave a comment )

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