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Would you call this police brutality??!!!

UCLA Student Tasered by UCLA Police for not showing ID


( 88 comments — Leave a comment )
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Nov. 16th, 2006 08:37 pm (UTC)
I'd like to hear the back story on this.

Every night at 11pm the police come through asking for id to make sure only students are there late.

Did this guy refuse to show his? Was he asked to leave, and he refused? If he forgot his, did he ask the police to just verify that his name is on record as a student?

Tazering seems extreme, very extreme, but the video doesn't cover what caused the issue.
Nov. 16th, 2006 08:48 pm (UTC)
I see many policemen there
I see many policemen there. I do not see their lives in danger.

No matter what the reason, there was no need for tasing him.
(no subject) - davev1968 - Nov. 16th, 2006 09:16 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - oninofro - Nov. 17th, 2006 07:35 am (UTC) - Expand
Nov. 16th, 2006 08:40 pm (UTC)
A perfect evaluation with that video can't be made. At almost no time were either the authorities in question nor the suspect they sought in direct line of sight of the camera.

But going by what I know...

There are two authorities at the suspect's side at any time when the camera is pointed. There are at least three other authorities standing around. Five men would be plenty enough to bring in one suspect whether he resisted arrest/detention or not. And he could be restrained without the need for a taser.
Second, tasers are meant for neutralizing a suspect, not for getting him to stand. In fact, tasers can and do directly inhibit a target's ability to stand, because they deliver low amp/high voltage charges that overwhelm muscle control, so telling the suspect repeatedly to stand up and tasering him when he refuses is frankly a form of torture. Since there are enough authorities present to overwhelm the suspect and bring him in, this is excessive force. The suspect is already restrained by two men in the video, and if there were any arms on his person, they have been removed. Hitting him with the taser after capture is not acceptable treatment by any authority figure. Period.
If the suspect wishes to make a case for police brutality, there actually -is- one, despite the poor quality of the video.
Nov. 16th, 2006 08:44 pm (UTC)
Re: Well...
And this is in reference only to the first video. Watching the second now.
Re: Well... - stevie_stever - Nov. 16th, 2006 08:55 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Well... - playgirl - Nov. 16th, 2006 08:54 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Well... - oninofro - Nov. 17th, 2006 07:38 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Well... - stevie_stever - Nov. 17th, 2006 03:28 pm (UTC) - Expand
Nov. 16th, 2006 08:41 pm (UTC)
Yes it is.
Nov. 16th, 2006 08:48 pm (UTC)
I say YES, also!
Nov. 16th, 2006 08:43 pm (UTC)
Considering how frequently I've seen police carry protestors away bodily, I have a hard time believing that these guys can justify using a taser on a guy repeatedly just because he wouldn't stand up. That is just ridiculous.
Nov. 16th, 2006 08:57 pm (UTC)
How can it be possible
How can it be possible, for these policemen to hurt this guy, who is in school, and who poses no threat what so ever, be brutalized in this manner?!

This video has literally taken my breath away with disgust!
Re: How can it be possible - sabrarosa - Nov. 16th, 2006 09:07 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: How can it be possible - playgirl - Nov. 16th, 2006 09:21 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: How can it be possible - sabrarosa - Nov. 16th, 2006 09:24 pm (UTC) - Expand
Nov. 16th, 2006 09:21 pm (UTC)
he wasn't threatening them. most cops are just assholes with a power trip.
Nov. 16th, 2006 09:29 pm (UTC)
No he wasn't
No he wasn't, and what I find most frightening of all, they they will get away with it.

There are many policemen who are there to protect us, but there are some who thugs who shouldn't have any authority what-so-ever! And God protect us from those!
Nov. 16th, 2006 09:30 pm (UTC)

There is an LA Times article about it.

Please remember you are only seeing maybe half of what happened. During the beginning you can't really hear anything and you can't see anything. And even with that, the video started after the confrontation with the police started.

What upsets me is that this could all have been avoided if the induhvidual involved had simply followed the posted rules. If he didn't have his ID, all he had to do was go home and get it. No fuss and no muss.

Instead, he refused to leave for about 30 minutes and then tried to leave once the police arrived. Having had first hand experience in this kind of situation, I know for a fact that the police will not just let you leave once they show up. They will want to talk to you.

What I believe happened is that he tried to leave and the cops wouldn't let him because they wanted to question him and possibly see if the staff wanted to swear out a trespass warrant against him. Rather than submit to this, he tried to leave and that is when things got heated. I think it is at this point the video starts up.

One thing to remember, the taser in question was being used not in taser mode, which disables one, but rather in drive mode, which gives a shock but does not disable. It is used to get people to follow directions. Whether or not it should have been used is debatable.

Personally, I put the blame squarely on the induhvidual and not the officers. He had multiple chances to comply and refused to do so.

Nov. 16th, 2006 09:49 pm (UTC)
To possibly kill someone over an ID confrontation?!
I found this link 167 cases of death following stun-gun use

from [info]t0yb0x

The situation did NOT pose a life threatening situation to anyone there, much less those MANY policemen. I find it disgusting that they could have possibly KILLED that guy, and over a damn ID!!
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - davev1968 - Nov. 21st, 2006 01:40 am (UTC) - Expand
Nov. 16th, 2006 09:35 pm (UTC)
2nd Video
In the second video it looks like she attempted to assault one of the officers. He mentioned "You took a swing at him", in which case tasering her was justifiable and not police brutality. She was billigerent and refusing to comply with lawful instructions, then assaulted one of the officers, so using reasonable force to bring her into custody is not unwarranted. It would be safer for both her and the officers to use the taser than to drag her out of the car while fighting her, and wrestle her to the ground.

What else could they have done in this situation?
Nov. 16th, 2006 10:34 pm (UTC)
Re: 2nd Video
I sure didn't see her taking a swing. Of course he's wrestling her down to the ground. How could she do it on her own, when she's in agonizing pain from being lased? And look at him afterwards, when he realizes he's got the camera on him.

I find his action to be brutal with that poor woman!
Re: 2nd Video - kmilligan - Nov. 16th, 2006 11:42 pm (UTC) - Expand
Nov. 16th, 2006 09:55 pm (UTC)
I can't say toomuch about the first one. It looks excessive to me, but I want to know what the original complaint was that led to the police there in the first place. I work at a University Library, and I am the contact person at times for Security or campus Police. And they don't just get called for minor things. I would like to know why there were there.
On a totally irrelevant note, was that guy a total crybaby wuss or what? My grandmother got her head bashed in by The Kern County Sheriff with billyclubs during the Delano Grape Strikes of 68 when she marched with Chavez and she didn't act like this little weenie. :)
On the other video if she took a swing at him after he made his instructions clear to her, she was lucky he only had his taser gun out. And she was definitely lucky she wasn't in New York where you can get shot 42 times for only showing the police your wallet.
Nov. 16th, 2006 09:58 pm (UTC)
Damn, that almost made me sound like I enjoyed that.

Heh, actually I don't like acts of unecessary brutality. But this guy was going for the academy of award of histrionics witht that display of how oppressed he was in the police state of UCLA.

Westwood is not Tianenman Square.
I've been searching - playgirl - Nov. 16th, 2006 10:29 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: I've been searching - donchep - Nov. 16th, 2006 10:54 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Does this one inspire you? :o( - playgirl - Nov. 16th, 2006 11:03 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Does this one inspire you? :o( - donchep - Nov. 17th, 2006 02:11 am (UTC) - Expand
Found this - playgirl - Nov. 17th, 2006 01:22 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Found this - donchep - Nov. 17th, 2006 02:51 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Found this - playgirl - Nov. 17th, 2006 06:28 pm (UTC) - Expand
Nov. 16th, 2006 10:40 pm (UTC)

I'm a school teacher in rough schools and have had to restrain kids plenty of times. I would say the taser was over the top, though the dude was pretty damn dramatic about it. He knew damn well he had an audience.

People here have suggested that they should have simply removed him. Problem is, there is nothing simple about removing a grown adult who doesn't want to go. That could have easily resulted in a dislocated joint. If you've never tried it, you wouldn't know.

Also as a teacher, I regularly have to remind my kids "DON'T ARGUE WITH POLICE OFFICERS". It's not worth it. Yes, sometimes police support unfair institutions and rules. But make your political point in some other way. A police officer is either some poor sap doing his job out of commitment or someone who felt relatively powerless out of uniform who is now power tripping a little. In either instance they don't take well to getting messed with - especially when they have had violence done to them once or twice - and they're armed and allowed to use force.

That kid was an idiot.

Nov. 16th, 2006 10:49 pm (UTC)
police brutality!!
And thank God he had an audience! I'd hate to imagine what more they would had done to torture him!

You are right in teaching your students not to argue with cops. If they do argue, they could end up shot to death!!!

Don't get me wrong, I am grateful that we have policemen to protect us, but it is a fact that there are some who are looking for any TINY excuse to beat the shit out of someone!

I MUST label the actions of those policemen a police brutality!!
Re: police brutality!! - i_stareatyou - Nov. 16th, 2006 10:51 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: police brutality!! - playgirl - Nov. 16th, 2006 11:12 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: police brutality!! - i_stareatyou - Nov. 16th, 2006 11:30 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - oninofro - Nov. 17th, 2006 08:14 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - i_stareatyou - Nov. 18th, 2006 12:38 am (UTC) - Expand
Nov. 16th, 2006 10:41 pm (UTC)
was this excessive force
yes it was but both people brought it on themselves so i can't exactly feel sorry for them.

as a person of color, i will be the first to tell you that police brutality has been an issue in this country for far too long, but like racial profiling, it gets ignored because it primarily only happens to minorities. it sickens me what happened to amadou diallo, as well as the guy who got sodomized while in police country. what's also a travesty is that the asshole guliani (who allowed nypd cops to literally get away with murder) is still a free man. the crap that happened with rodney king was all kinds of wrong, no matter what you think of the man, he still has rights. you want to know how out of control police brutality is? several years ago, back in nashville, two cops pulled over a black drug dealer and brutally assaulted him with no just cause whatsoever. well turns out that black drug dealer was an undercover police officer working a case. black, white, ultimately it's about blue. i expect cops to live and work at a very high standard. they chose the job to serve and protect, and if we can't trust them, then who can we trust?

however, not every case is excessive force.

i've had to deal with police officers throughout my lifetime. most of them were kind, hardworking men and women who were trying to make this society a little bit safer and a few of them were assholes on a power trip who should've never gotten a badge and should be behind bars their damn selves. but for the most part, most cops are reasonable.

that being said, i think people need to realize who they're dealing with. they're cops, they carry a badge and a gun which means they can shoot your ass and get away with it. if you get pulled over by a police officer or in a situation where law enforcement is called, you need to keep a cool head when dealing with cops. remember, they put their lives on the line everyday and they don't know if you're an ordinary citizen or a potential psycho. it's not always about right and wrong, it's about wrong and smart. is it wrong for cops to racially profile someone? yes. is it smart for that someone to go mouthing off to a cop? no. is it wrong for a cop to give someone a ticket, even if they weren't speeding? sure. is it smart to be uncooperative, irate and to give the cops an excuse to use excessive force? no.

if a cop pulls you over or questions you or whatever, you tell the truth, you do as you're told and you do not mouth off to them. if by some chance you get an asshole officer who crosses the life, then you report his ass to internal affairs and file a class action lawsuit.

1. video number one: as one of your other readers accurately pointed out, we couldn't see what was going on so we can't really say one way or the other. however, that student was being uncooperative and screaming at the officers not to touch him. if the cops tried to escort him out and he resisted (in the initial incident) then yes they had a right to taser him. now. after the student was subdued and handcuffed, the police officers had no right to zap him again because they weren't in danger and yes they should be brought up on violations, but that student was no saint. if the cops were questioning him or harassing him about his id, he should've done as they asked and file a complaint later. but he acted a damn fool and gave the cops an excuse to zap him.

2. video number two: this woman was all attitude and she was talking crazy to the cop before he could even say anything. turns out she has a broken tail light, a cracked windshield, and a suspended license, and was doing 20 over the limit. she may have gotten off with a ticket but she was talking so much shit. then the cops repeatedly told her to get off the phone but no, her ass stays on the phone. should they have zapped her? no. they should've tried to handcuff her first and if she resisted, then do what needs to be done. should the cops be brought up on violations? sure. but that woman wasn't a saint either and she had no business on the road.

again, i do believe both cases were excessive uses of the taser but these people brought it on themselves. thank you for sharing this. like i said, i'll definitely be addressing this on my lj very soon.
Nov. 17th, 2006 12:55 am (UTC)
Re: was this excessive force
You have brought out so many excellent points!

There was a time when I felt police were my friend, but I honest to God do not feel the same way anymore, and in fact, I'm very much afraid of them now. I've seen to many facts of police brutality.

I realize that most police officers are there to perform their duties, as best they can, but I know there are those who would kill you for blinking one time too many.

There's no way of differentiating either.

There are times to react in a violent manner, and there are times when it's not necessary, and in the first video, I feel chose violence when it was absolutely not necessary!

This is exactly the way I feel now. Should I ever be pulled over by a policeman for a traffic violation, I'm going to be praying to God for his protection. And you know something; this is NOT the reaction I'm supposed to feel.

The day I watched the Rodney King video for the first time, that's the day I started fearing the police!
Re: was this excessive force - daddy - Nov. 17th, 2006 02:06 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: was this excessive force - i_stareatyou - Nov. 17th, 2006 02:15 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: was this excessive force - moon_shine - Nov. 17th, 2006 02:41 am (UTC) - Expand
Nov. 16th, 2006 11:07 pm (UTC)
((HUGS)) Savanah lets just go take that balloon ride what do you say ;O)
sending a Kiss *Wink Wink*
Nov. 17th, 2006 12:39 am (UTC)
Only if you promise to take me to a world where there's no violence! :o)
Re: Only - moon_shine - Nov. 17th, 2006 02:23 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Only - moon_shine3 - Nov. 17th, 2006 09:45 pm (UTC) - Expand
Nov. 17th, 2006 01:03 am (UTC)
I call it comedy, and it appears now the pigs are treating the regular white folks the same aggressive way they've occupied all the ghettos...it's probably the steroids...

Nov. 17th, 2006 06:33 pm (UTC)
Mostafa Tabatabainejad
ninjagudan, with a name like Mostafa Tabatabainejad, I think he was most probably a minority.
(Deleted comment)
Nov. 17th, 2006 08:43 pm (UTC)
The video has upset me to no end. :o(
Nov. 17th, 2006 01:57 am (UTC)
well I am speaking from a personal point of view only knowing what I see on this video. as others have said what happened before this is unclear, but the fact that I was a cop at one time many many years ago does play into my feelings.

First the student is on state property and is under the autrhority of the campus police. The students know thin from the very first day, a lot of times these students are educated well beyond their level of understanding or intelligence and think they know everything.

Saying that, the two officers ahould have done at the very beginning what they did at the end.
Cuff him and drag him out. If the other stidents made a scdene then reinforcements could be called in just as it appears they did.

I have been hit by a taser, and as has already been mentioned your muscles could be momentarily unable to function, if it is on high power. On lowpower it hurts like bloody hell but only for a short time. This was definately overkill on the kid though.

You dont argue with a snot-nosed kid, or a verbally abusive driver. The kid could have been marched or drug out without him being shocked. The Driver was a valid call if they thought she was swinging at the officer.

In both cases if they had OBEYED the officers the tasers would have never come into play. The subjects made it worse on themselves.

But these are just my feelings...
Nov. 17th, 2006 08:31 pm (UTC)
They created more havoc than the student himself
I've given it more thought because this video continues to upset the hell out of me.

When they saw that the situation was useless, because they were dealing with someone who was NOT going to leave, they should have called for assistance.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe I counted at least 4 cops. Are they such wet noodles that they couldn't have just grabbed him by the armpits and escorted him out?

They created more havoc than the student himself. I'm positive that all those who had to bear witness to the torture they educed the student, will forever be traumatized. There are many people who have never witnessed violence as I saw in this video.

Whatever! Those police behaved more like the Gestapo than police. I'm glad it was caught on tape, because had it not; nobody would have believed what happened possible. Not in the U.S.A.

And what is so FRIGHTENING about this happening is that those assholes are going to get away with it. They ALWAYS do!!

There are many police officers who are out there to do their jobs with compassion, and if need be, they must resort to violent tactics to save their lives, and this is as it should be! But, there are also some who abuse their power, and behave like the Gestapo. I’ve seen way too many of this kind, who abuse their power and are NOT suppose to be policemen! God only knows to what extent, and how many times, police brutality has occurred, and none of us know about it. There are just some people who given an ounce of power (this goes for any line of work where an ounce of power is given, in any line of work) and it goes to their head and they believe they are on some kind of throne. How frightening that this type of person should become President of the U.S. someday!! I’ve seen too many videos of police brutality.

I am much more upset, and frightened today, than I was yesterday.

Don’t get me wrong. I am so thankful that we have police officers to protect us if need be! It’s those who are looking for any little excuse to be brutal, that frighten me!!

It’s a sad day in hell, when one has to worry if one will be shot to death or not, when stopped for a simple traffic violation. What if he thinks I’m reaching for a weapon, when I’m only reaching for my proof of insurance, or driver’s license?!!

Thank you for sharing your feelings! :o)
Nov. 17th, 2006 03:29 am (UTC)
the pigs need to have the shit beat out of em.
Nov. 17th, 2006 06:36 pm (UTC)
I know they could have handled the situation
I know they could have handled the situation without violence. There were enough of them where they could have grabbed him from under the guy's armpits, and escorted him out. There was no need to tase him one time, much less the 5 times I believe I counted.
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