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Fear of Cops



It kills me to admit this, but it comes from the bottom of my heart and soul! For some unknown reason, instead of feeling safe and secure when I see a policeman, I feel fear that comes close to terror!

Has our country become a police state? Is our country on its way toward absolute rule?


[info]tigron_x has given me permission to post this most thought provoking reply he left in my 4th of July entry.

You're thoughts P-L-E-A-S-E!


"What freedoms?

How do you figure that?

Every gun you own is registered, thus tracked.
Soon we'll have RFID tags in our government id cards, so we'll be tracked.
Everyone is in debt to the Federal Reserve -- a privately owned company.
We're taxed everywhere we look.
You don't own your own labour.
You don't own any land.
The government has full access to your bank account.
Your home can be entered and searched without a warrant.
You can be wire tapped without a warrant.
Your pc can be hacked without a warrant.
The economy is completely manipulated by the central banking system.
We have a de facto court system.
We have a de facto government.

So really, we're free to work where ever we want and buy whatever product that is available as long as we follow their rules and their system of government -- in other words, as long as we don't step out of line.

Basically, if we want to act on our rights, for example the right to contract, we have to ask permission to do so by applying for a license. For example, if we want to find a buyer for another's property, then we have to get a broker's license. If we want to help someone find accomodations, we have to get a travel agent's license. If we want to open up a bar, we have to have a license to distribute alcohol. And the list goes on.

Are we so incompetent that we need the government to administrate and regulate every facet of our lives? Are we beings without reason and logic? Are we seriously incapable of governing our own affairs?

Hell, when you get pulled over for speeding, they force you to testify against yourself by forcing you to contract with the police (tax) officer, otherwise if you don't sign their contract, then you go to jail. And if you try to question the officer's authority, the officer can and will threaten you to submit to his/her authority.

And if you go to court regarding the ticket, you don't get to plee innocent because you're the one in conflict since you're there to 'dispute' the charges.

You get to plee "not guilty", which is an act of denial. So you have to prove they're wrong for giving you a ticket, not they have to prove you were speeding. In other words, in essence they're innocent and you have to prove they're guilty. And if you're not a lawyer, you're considered incompetent in the legal system -- which is somewhat true because their talking in a language that sounds like english, but the words have different meanings than what the average person is taught in schools.

So, how does that constitute as freedom? And do we have more freedom than other countries because we have more products available to us, or similar products but at a lower price? And how much longer do you think that's going to last when the more we use Federal Debt Notes (USD) the more we go into debt? So what freedoms are you refering to because I see none within our government?"




Playgirl's
Boléro Music



Join The NRA

"The Right Of The People To Keep and
Bear Arms, Shall Not Be infringed."

Comments

( 148 comments — Leave a comment )
astrixas
Jul. 10th, 2007 08:39 pm (UTC)
I have no problems with the Police, unless I know I am doing somthing wrong. If I am not doing anything wrong, I can always rationalize my way out of a confrontation with them. it's only when they catch me red-handed am i screwed and scared lol!
tigron_x
Jul. 10th, 2007 10:16 pm (UTC)
The question here is are you really doing something wrong or is it just something you've been lead to believe is wrong. See... there is only one true law as follows:

You do not have the right to bring harm to the life, liberty, rights, or property of another living soul. Or another way to say that is one does not have the right to claim the right to bring harm to another human being, damage property, or engage in extortion or fraud or break contract.

If you do not violate one of those things above, then you have done nothing wrong, or in other words you have not done anything that is unlawful. However, when you violate a statute, like in the case of speeding, then you have done something that is not legal. A statute is defined as a rule of society that has the force of law. However, it is not law.

So they claim your action was unlawful because you have violated a contract that you have unknowingly made with them. i.e. You broke contract, therefore you are acting unlawfully. The fact that you were speeding doesn't matter except on the grounds that you violated a commercial contract. The contract you broke is that you gave them authority to enforce speed limits upon you. The proof of your contract with them is your drivers license.

And the way they obtain proof of your violation is by your signature on the ticket that they forced you to sign.

So, in reality, who is acting unlawfully here? They didn't give you full disclosure when you went to go contract with them which is fraud. And by forcing you to sign a ticket, they are forcing you to contract with them which is in violation of your right to contract -- which also means you have the right to not contract. And the fact that they devise ways to tax you with tickets which they force you to sign is extortion.

And do you want to know what the real kicker is here? The one seeking lawful remedy from you is the county. The county is a fictional entity. Can you really harm, damage the property of, extort, defraud or break contract with something that isn't real? No. And the purpose of law is to protect living souls and to provide remedy for unlawful acts. So, how can a fictional entity persue remedy of an unlawful act when it's not even real?

So did you really break the law or are being deceived into believing you have? If you think you did, then prove to me who you hurt or what property you damged or whose rights and liberties did you violate. Or what contract did you break.

And by the way, you didn't violate contract with the county. In order for there to be a contract, there needs to be a signature from both parties. Counties aren't real beings, so they can't sign. Therefore, there is no contract.
(no subject) - astrixas - Jul. 10th, 2007 10:31 pm (UTC) - Expand
Answered your own question - duoraven - Jul. 10th, 2007 11:00 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Answered your own question - tigron_x - Jul. 11th, 2007 04:08 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Answered your own question - duoraven - Jul. 11th, 2007 05:29 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Answered your own question - tigron_x - Jul. 11th, 2007 06:33 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Answered your own question - duoraven - Jul. 11th, 2007 10:55 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Answered your own question - tigron_x - Jul. 12th, 2007 12:40 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Answered your own question - duoraven - Jul. 12th, 2007 03:01 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Answered your own question - tigron_x - Jul. 12th, 2007 07:08 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Answered your own question - duoraven - Jul. 13th, 2007 12:35 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Answered your own question - tigron_x - Jul. 16th, 2007 01:45 am (UTC) - Expand
Digging that hole deeper and deeper - duoraven - Jul. 16th, 2007 04:26 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Digging that hole deeper and deeper - tigron_x - Jul. 16th, 2007 07:21 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Digging that hole deeper and deeper - tigron_x - Jul. 16th, 2007 07:24 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Digging that hole deeper and deeper - tigron_x - Jul. 16th, 2007 07:18 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Digging that hole deeper and deeper - duoraven - Jul. 17th, 2007 03:10 am (UTC) - Expand
Certifiable - duoraven - Jul. 19th, 2007 01:53 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Certifiable - tigron_x - Jul. 19th, 2007 03:30 am (UTC) - Expand
Individualism - duoraven - Jul. 19th, 2007 09:56 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Individualism - tigron_x - Jul. 19th, 2007 11:20 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Individualism - duoraven - Jul. 20th, 2007 01:03 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Individualism - tigron_x - Jul. 20th, 2007 05:15 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Individualism - duoraven - Jul. 20th, 2007 06:46 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Individualism - tigron_x - Jul. 20th, 2007 05:08 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Individualism - duoraven - Jul. 20th, 2007 06:36 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Individualism - tigron_x - Jul. 20th, 2007 11:24 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Individualism - duoraven - Jul. 21st, 2007 07:58 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Individualism - tigron_x - Jul. 21st, 2007 10:19 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Individualism - duoraven - Jul. 21st, 2007 11:03 pm (UTC) - Expand
Part 1 of 2 - tigron_x - Jul. 22nd, 2007 07:03 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Part 1 of 2 - duoraven - Jul. 23rd, 2007 06:30 pm (UTC) - Expand
Part 2 of 2 - tigron_x - Jul. 22nd, 2007 07:09 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Part 2 of 2 - duoraven - Jul. 23rd, 2007 06:44 pm (UTC) - Expand
Questions, Questions, Questions - tigron_x - Jul. 25th, 2007 11:45 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Questions, Questions, Questions - duoraven - Jul. 25th, 2007 03:53 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Questions, Questions, Questions - tigron_x - Jul. 25th, 2007 09:22 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - playgirl - Jul. 11th, 2007 04:49 am (UTC) - Expand
smjayman
Jul. 10th, 2007 08:49 pm (UTC)
I think you've summed up why many are getting fed up with the current state of things. :(
playgirl
Jul. 11th, 2007 04:45 am (UTC)
Thank you.
thisismo
Jul. 10th, 2007 08:54 pm (UTC)
In your area and all down the border I have serious doubts about the police force. I'm sure some are very good people who are overwhelmed and don't know what to do. I'm also sure that there are some very bad people "serving" in the area who take orders from murder masters and drug pushers.

On a personal level I try to stay away from them except for one who is a good friend and good person.
playgirl
Jul. 11th, 2007 04:43 am (UTC)
We have an excellent police force in El Paso. But as it's said, there's always a few rotton apples in a batch, that those few are the one I'm afraid of.

Thank you for your thoughts, I appreciate it!
duoraven
Jul. 10th, 2007 09:59 pm (UTC)
Part One of Probably a long winded response
I had intended on replying to your last post regarding the traffic tickets, but now I think I'll consolidate that into this series of responses.

When I read the post about the $3000+ speeding ticket, it prompted me to wonder if the whole speeding ticket system was worth it.

Sure, everyone can agree that there should be laws against driving under the influence of drugs and alcohol, or driving recklessly, or driving fast in construction/school zones where lives could be destroyed in an instant. But out on the open road, does it really matter if I go 85 in a 65 or 70, as long as I'm aware and cautious?

Nearly all my dealings with the police have been in the form of being ticketed, and nearly every time I have been "just outraged." I think many people can relate, and does this not undermine people's confidence in the police? When we see a police car, do we like the idea that most of think "oh no, he might pull me over" rather than "whew, God bless him, he's protecting us."

I asked a cop friend of mine about it. He said he really hates giving out tickets, but absolutely thinks it's necessary. He pointed out that many people who are pulled over for speeding are found to be wanted for other crimes. Now, granted, that sometimes does not always work out, due to the Exclusionary Rule being as it is, but it has paid off more than once--Sam Berkowitz and Timothy McVeigh were both caught b/c of traffic violations.

My parents live about 25 miles from my place. It's interstate almost the entire way, so it is easy to cover that in 25-30 minutes. Would I like to blow through there and get back in about 15? Sure. Do I really need that extra 10 minutes most days? No, not really.
tigron_x
Jul. 10th, 2007 10:43 pm (UTC)
Re: Part One of Probably a long winded response
I've had cops tell me they hate giving out tickets as well. Afterall, who likes being a tax collector? They signed up to protect and serve. Not tax and punish.

And those laws you're refering to aren't laws; they're rules of society. And some of those rules are ok, but one has to look at the entire package here. When one does, then one realizes that these statutes no longer serve us, but instead they oppress us. They have become another form of taxation.

Where you find the laws most numerous, there you will also find the greatest injustice. -- Arcesilaus
duoraven
Jul. 10th, 2007 10:08 pm (UTC)
Trusting Po-lice
In 1998, the U.S. Justice Dept conducted a survey in Los Angeles, of all places, asking citizens whether they approved of the local police in their neighborhoods. The result? 86% said yes (89% of whites, 82% of blacks). Consider that cops in LA have at least 1 million interactions a year with citizens--out of that million, in 2004, there were less than 5000 complaints filed, with only 164 sustained and another 138 still pending. But for the sake of argument, let's assume there are another 10,000 who would complain, but feel either it would do no good or some other such excuse.

10,000 out of a million in a hypo is still a small fraction--even more so if you consider, as we're completely just making up numbers here, if 10,000 instances of police misconduct would go unreported, I think it's fair to say in a city with such a high immigrant population that as many as 100,000 crimes may go UNREPORTED.

All that is just a hypo--bottom line, 86% trust the cops, and less than 1% of instances with police result in a cop being sanctioned in some way. Also, by the by, about 60% of the cops in LA are black.

America is not becoming a police state, and I will explain a bit in the next post.
duoraven
Jul. 10th, 2007 10:22 pm (UTC)
Let Freedom Ring
Your friend, Tigron_x, strikes me as a free market anarchist, or more properly I suppose a anarcho-capitalist (that is, a person who supports the abolition of all states in favor of a pure, free market economy). I do not mean to label him thus as a slur, but rather make an observation.

I'd like to handle a few of his charges up front, and will start with the ones I take issue with the most.

"Your home can be entered and searched w/o a warrant."

BS. What evidence is there of such a serious charge? Or is this meant to be a may/can type use of words? Certainly, the police CAN randomly kick down a person's door, in as much as they are physically capable. Let's say they do, and find an entire house filled with illegal drugs and child pornography. B/c the search was illegal (done w/o a warrant) the evidence is inadmissible, and the homeowner goes free. But there is no evidence, no story at all of which I am aware, of police officers randomly and w/o any reason/cause going around kicking in doors.

Most police officers, again, are ordinary men and women, blue collar workers who may be called to put their lives on the line. While many may have put on the uniform b/c of the thrill of carrying a gun and wielding a badge, most of them are much more altruistic in their motives. That does not say, many become corrupted, or just burnt out, but police are not "secret police" working a sentinels for some higher purpose.
tigron_x
Jul. 11th, 2007 12:11 am (UTC)
Re: Let Freedom Ring
RE: "Your home can be entered and searched w/o a warrant."

The US Pariot Act has vastly increased the federal investigative and prosecutorial powers.

§213. Authority For Delaying Notice Of The Execution Of A Warrant—"Sneak and Peek"

§215. Access To Records And Other Items Under FISA. (This one may have expired already.)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2030542,00.html

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=18689

Furthermore, there is nothing stopping them from doing a sneak and peek and then issuing a warrant.

As for police officers...
I believe police officers are good honourable men and women. I do not blame one personally, I understand that those who benefit from some societal mechanism rarely wish to understand that mechanism; especially if it appears to give them power or authority -- and understanding that mechanism would limit, diminish, or restrict that authority.

Also, I am not an anarcho-capitalist. My opposition towards our current societal mechanism is due to the fact that it no longer serves us but instead oppresses us. I think there is a better way. The government we live under now is a problem because we live under it. Government is meant to serve us, not us serve it. We should not live under our government. It should exist under us.
Re: Let Freedom Ring - playgirl - Jul. 11th, 2007 04:51 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Let Freedom Ring - tigron_x - Jul. 11th, 2007 05:01 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Let Freedom Ring - playgirl - Jul. 11th, 2007 01:22 pm (UTC) - Expand
duoraven
Jul. 10th, 2007 10:34 pm (UTC)
De facto?
Regarding Tigron_x's charges of having a "de facto gov't" and "de facto court system", I am unsure how to respond. I think you are alleging that they are illegitimate--how so? What exactly makes them illegitimate?

While I am hesitant to mention this, as it will inevitably be taken to mean that I am comparing/likening it to the U.S., which I am absolutely not doing, I would point out that technically, the Third Reich was not an illegitimate gov't, in as much as the people ELECTED the Nazis to power, and through legal, gov't action the Nazis consolidated power and stripped away legal rights and freedoms.

Whatever the persons in power may or may not be doing, the U.S. gov't is a legitimate one, whatever that may "mean" in terms of ethics.
tigron_x
Jul. 11th, 2007 05:11 am (UTC)
Re: De facto?
The U.S. government is a corporation. Our SSN is our employee identification number or EIN. We are employees to this corporation. We are considered a human resource. We are given a name as opposed to a title. That name is actually a fictional entity; a corporation. We are duped into believing this corporation is us, and we're held as surety for this corporation. There is a bond created in our name when our parents register us to this U.S. corporation when we are borned, and we are then traded like property; in fact we are considered a commodity. The productivity of our life is tracked and measured and used to calculate our worth. This US corporation perpetrating as our government borrows money from international bankers by using us, the human resource, as collateral. We are held in debt by usury. And we are led to believe that federal debt notes is actually money when it is actually paper backed by nothing but our belief in this system. We are kept in debt like serfs, and everything done is to keep us dependent on the government. In other words, we are kept in slavery by our minds.

Now you're right, the U.S. government is doing exactly what it was intended to do. But, it no longer serves us as we are no longer the masters because it is no longer a republic as it was intended to be, but rather it is a democracy -- which means rule of the mob. Or rule by the ego self. The ego self believes it is governing this country because we get to vote and buy whatever our our ego self desires, but anyone who seeks to understand the monetary system will learn otherwise. This is why monetary theory is not taught in school. Basically, we do not follow the rule of law, we follow the rule of commerce. And the court system helps regulate this system of commerce by directing the flow of currency. Basically, we are degraded down to a point where we exist as nothing but a labour force (human resource) and a mindless consumer.

Actually, Morpheus put it nicely when he showed us to be nothing but a battery. That's what the whole Matrix movie is about if you didn't know. It is a symbolic representation of our current existence.

But anyhow...

You take the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes. ;)


Re: De facto? - moon_shine - Jul. 11th, 2007 06:38 am (UTC) - Expand
duoraven
Jul. 10th, 2007 10:44 pm (UTC)
Lisencure
OK, regarding the claim about licenses, and then I have to take a break for a while :-)

Technically, there is a recognized "right to contract," and only when issues of public safety or morality come into play can the gov't abridge that right to some extent.

That is the "public interest" argument for licensing--for such professions as lawyers, physicians, architects, accountants, psychologists, etc., there is a legitimate public duty to protect individuals from the harmful consequences of persons who may not be qualified to serve them.

Now, I admit, the caveat of that is in a perfect world, people would be capable of ascertaining who is better for a job and choose, but in the real world some people are incapable of having their pick, and other people are simply "duped."

Also, the "private interest" argument for licensing states that professionals have an economic interest in restricting the number of entries into a business, as it allows for their profits/wages to go up. The flaw in that plan, however, is that there are rarely any ceilings imposed on the number of persons who may become doctors/lawyers/etc, but rather expectations of education and experience that are mandated. True, not everyone can afford the same education, but we do have a farily vast and intricate system of loans and scholarships (many of which are backed by the wicked, wicked gov't) intended to alleviate those problems.

Now, I completely agree in some places it is out of hand (do we really need a special license process for arborists or boxers?), but those decisions came about as the result of democratic process, and likewise can be changed if a extensive enough effort is made by a region's citizens.

That, tragically, is the greatest flaw in democracy: citizen apathy.
playgirl
Jul. 11th, 2007 04:36 am (UTC)
Re: Lisencure
Thank you so much!

I'm grateful for our police officers; it's the bad ones I'll always be afraid of.
Re: Lisencure - donchep - Jul. 11th, 2007 05:13 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Lisencure - tigron_x - Jul. 11th, 2007 06:38 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Lisencure - tigron_x - Jul. 11th, 2007 06:34 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Lisencure - donchep - Jul. 11th, 2007 02:36 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Lisencure - donchep - Jul. 11th, 2007 02:51 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Lisencure - tigron_x - Jul. 11th, 2007 04:47 pm (UTC) - Expand
Quote Dropping is Bogus - duoraven - Jul. 11th, 2007 05:55 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Quote Dropping is Bogus - tigron_x - Jul. 11th, 2007 07:47 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Quote Dropping is Bogus - donchep - Jul. 11th, 2007 09:20 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Quote Dropping is Bogus - playgirl - Jul. 17th, 2007 01:11 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Quote Dropping is Bogus - duoraven - Jul. 17th, 2007 03:37 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Lisencure - donchep - Jul. 11th, 2007 07:32 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Lisencure - tigron_x - Jul. 11th, 2007 09:12 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Lisencure - donchep - Jul. 12th, 2007 03:31 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Lisencure - tigron_x - Jul. 12th, 2007 06:11 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Lisencure - donchep - Jul. 13th, 2007 07:51 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Lisencure - donchep - Jul. 13th, 2007 07:52 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Lisencure - tigron_x - Jul. 14th, 2007 02:00 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Lisencure - donchep - Jul. 16th, 2007 01:28 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Lisencure - tigron_x - Jul. 16th, 2007 02:58 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Lisencure - playgirl - Jul. 17th, 2007 01:15 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Lisencure - playgirl - Jul. 17th, 2007 01:04 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Lisencure - tigron_x - Jul. 17th, 2007 02:39 am (UTC) - Expand
Heya sweet heart. - tigron_x - Jul. 26th, 2007 05:31 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Heya sweet heart. - playgirl - Jul. 26th, 2007 06:09 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Heya sweet heart. - tigron_x - Jul. 26th, 2007 06:52 am (UTC) - Expand
ayoub
Jul. 10th, 2007 10:47 pm (UTC)
This is why I like Anarchism :D
playgirl
Jul. 11th, 2007 04:38 am (UTC)
An Anarchism? How do I become one? :o)
(no subject) - ayoub - Jul. 11th, 2007 09:10 am (UTC) - Expand
neo_prodigy
Jul. 10th, 2007 10:48 pm (UTC)
my thoughts on the matter
i think america is a government like any other. which means that it's just as fallible and corrupt as the next one. do i respect the ideals that this country is supposed to represent. sure. do i believe this country represents those ideals. not on your frikkin life. this country has always been deeply rooted in corruption like many governments are.

the facts listed are valid and we should definitely be wary of them but i don't exactly lose sleep over it. what will happen, will happen and when it does i'll react accordingly. does that mean do nothing and wait for the shoe to drop? of course not.

i think we should do whatever we can (such as voting and being active) to fix the system but worrying over the secret police coming to take us in the middle of the night won't change the fact that they may or may not come.

so basically in regards to the points listed: good to know, i'll keep that in mind, i'll do whatever i can on my end but i'm not going to lose sleep over the matter even though i probably should.
playgirl
Jul. 11th, 2007 04:39 am (UTC)
Re: my thoughts on the matter
Thank you so much for your thoughts on the matter! :o)
moon_shine
Jul. 11th, 2007 06:34 am (UTC)
for tigron_x
Well I have to jump in here this is just to much tigron_x

First off none of my guns are registered (shaking head) boy why are you so paranoid?
And I have no government Id card lol and we well never have one!!
And I am not in debt to any one sorry to hear you are :)
We are taxed but most everyone wants every thing so someone has to pay for it.
“You don't own your own labor.”
I work for my self so I guess I do =o) hum
Now no one ever owns the land the land has always been here and always will be we cannot ever own it. The government that you hate so much has decided that they will let you hold deed to it.
Now your right about the sneak and peek but if you have nothing to hide why worry?
And every thing you say and do on the net is being watched 24-7 did you not know that?
de facto -- (in reality or fact;)

And every society has rules that is a fact! But then again it is not a society with out them.

And do you really know why you need a license? That is because someone has abused the rights of someone and a law had to be imposed to protect the consumer or the innocent.

And all I have to say about your speeding analogy is do not speed I have the right not to be put in danger by a fool that does not have the common scents to drive at a safe speed!

So, how does this constitute as freedom? You have the freedom to plead innocent and the right not to submit to his/her authority. And to go on line and say just what you did.
The other day you said in one of your rants some thing?? But I just wonted to put in my two cents that I am glad that I am A American citizen and human being, witch for some reason you do not like being, maybe you should start your own country and do not worry us poor little Humans are just animals, be glad that you are an American and that you are Human some day you will know how lucky you really are.

I need to add this before I go, you are like many in this world you think you are in control of your own life but in one second it can all change, and we are all adults Here and part of being an adult is living with ones own actions and the consequences of these actions
tigron_x
Jul. 11th, 2007 06:57 am (UTC)
Re: for tigron_x
Do you pay an income tax on your labour? Then you don't own your own labour as someone has a claim on it.

You can claim land, and that defines ownership. However, since you pay taxes on that land, that means someone else has a prior claim to it, and you're just renting it. Stop paying the taxes and the government will be sure to let you know exactly who has title to the land. And that will most certainly not be you unless you claim that title which can be done if you learn how.

I'm glad you don't have your guns registered. Not all of them have to be, but too many people are deceived into think they must.

If you're an American Citizen, then you're not a US citizen. If you're a US citizen, then you're held as collateral for the national debt. Thus, you are in debt. And you pay that debt when you pay the IRS.

By the way... you don't get to plead innocent. You get to plea, "Not guilty." Then you have to prove your innocence.

I like being a human being. How did you ever come to the conclusion that I don't?

Re: for tigron_x - moon_shine - Jul. 11th, 2007 07:40 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: for tigron_x - tigron_x - Jul. 11th, 2007 03:42 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: for tigron_x - moon_shine - Jul. 11th, 2007 05:30 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: for tigron_x - tigron_x - Jul. 11th, 2007 09:23 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: for tigron_x - moon_shine - Jul. 11th, 2007 11:08 pm (UTC) - Expand
moon_shine
Jul. 11th, 2007 09:02 am (UTC)
just to make you smile


hey Sunshine I know why you do not trust the cops that is becouse your not as fast as me =o) Wink heheheee...
and lots of Big Hugs sweetie! That is if you can catch me ;o)))) but I would let ya ;o)

well I had to post that one twice ;o)
playgirl
Jul. 11th, 2007 01:31 pm (UTC)
Re: just to make you smile
Oh my Cocka-doodle-do, how FUN-EEEE!!
Re: just to make you smile - moon_shine - Jul. 11th, 2007 05:35 pm (UTC) - Expand
uglyface2
Jul. 11th, 2007 01:47 pm (UTC)
I take the stance that police officers in real life are a lot like the police officers in the movie Brazil. Some of them are brutal, and they do things that are violent, but at the end of the day they're just people. They're not out to oppress you, they're just doing their jobs.
playgirl
Jul. 11th, 2007 04:14 pm (UTC)
Our country would be in a heap of trouble if we didn't have our police officers to protect us. The majority are good people placing their lives on the line to safeguard our safety, but from what I've seen on news videos, there are a few who aren't so nice, and this is where my fear of them stems from. My question to myself will always be, will the police officer be a nice person or a bad one when I'm stopped for a traffic violation?
daddy
Jul. 11th, 2007 11:48 pm (UTC)
Well lets see...

After traveling around the world twice, I can confirm that we do have freedoms in the USA, but instead of concentrating on those I will use what has been said by tigron_X

Well none of my guns are registered, The NRA's own Guun Registry will be the first thing confiscated IF the congress ever repeals the bill of rights. (not likely) 'you can buy guns without registering them by buying them from a collector not a gun shop.

RFIS cards are a dream and not likely to ever come about... that is a conspiracy idea and not realistic anytime soon. Hell they cannot track the illeagle aliens.

It is true we are taxed but many countries are taxed worse than we are. and I dont mine paying my fair share.

You do own land, and personal property, you may have to pay a tax on it but it is YOURS to do with as you please. Unless you live in some stupid housing development that prevents you from being yourself.

I dont know what wasd meant by you dont own your own 'labour'... My labor is my own I work where and for whom I want to work for, I do a job that I enjoy, and can quit if I so please and dop any other job I want to do...

The government has full access to your bank account. (Only with a warrant or justifiable cause)

Your home can be entered and searched without a warrant.(No it cant, Illeagle search and seisure laws)

You can be wire tapped without a warrant.(once again No it cant) but if anyone weants to listen they can I have nothing to hide.

Your pc can be hacked without a warrant. (by anyone not the government IF they want to get through my firewall and protection system)

The economy is completely manipulated by the central banking system. (Bull shit)

We have a de facto court system.???? Explain that... We have the best jurisprudence in the world.

We have a de facto government. Yea sure and Bush stole the presidency give it a break.

So really, we're free to work where ever we want and buy whatever product that is available as long as we follow their rules and their system of government -- in other words, as long as we don't step out of line.

OK Go to a grocery store in any other part of the worls and tell me they have as many products as we do on their shelves...

When have you ever been forbidden to buy a book or a car or anything you wanted????

Rules abnd LAWS are there to keep the peace, insure the domestic tranquility and keep you safe.

We may not be perfect, and I know we are not, but we ARE the best game in town. Those areas that need to be changed, can be changed by a knowledgable populace that use their rights to vote, after they have researched the facts and made an informed decision NOT accepted the rantings of those who are anarchists who only want to cause trouble or gain more power for themselves.

As a former cop I have never had anyone testify against themselves or used strong arm tactics to make a point. BUT if you dont break the law... you dont have a problem. IF you do disagree you CAN fight even a speeding ticket. Very few lawyers are used in traffic court, and are usually trying to get a law breaker off because the law breaker cannot accept the consequences of his own actions.

Finally... In the beginning as now there were two extremes, Anarchy and Totalitarinism. Our founding fathers hammered out a comfortable mid point where the people govern and make laws. If you know of an better place on the face of the earth, I say go to it, but as I have said I have been there and I know there isn't.

May God Bless America.... I love it, I'm staying here and I will defend and protect her again if I must.

ok I am done....




.
tigron_x
Jul. 12th, 2007 01:42 am (UTC)
Re: Well lets see...
They own your labor because they get paid before you do if you work for someone. If you don't work for someone they still have a claim on your labor. A claim means someone owns a part of the item or all of it. In the case of labor, they own part of your labor, therefore you don't own it in total. That's what I was getting at.

Supposedly, the RFID tags will be in the New Passports.

I'm not for anarchy. I am for a republic -- rule of law; rule of principle.

Comparing ourselves to other countries doesn't mean we're governing ourselves according to principle or evaluating ourselves to the principles our forefather set forth. And doing such a comparison can be likened to saying, "Oh, my chains are better than theirs because mine are gold." No, I'm an American I believe in American ingenuity, so I'm not concerned with how other countries run themselves.

As far as being force to testified against oneself...

All the officer does is threaten to arrest you if you do not sign the citation. The reason one is testifying against oneself at the point is because of what is said on the citation, as follows:

(Florida Citation)

In the court designated below the undersigned certifies that he/she has just and reasonable grounds to believe and does believe that on:

[county info & violator infor & more descriptive info]

Did unlawfully commit the following Offense, In violation of State Statute,

[Speeding info]
[Court Info]
[Signature]


Now, I underlined the part which implies that you believe you were speeding. Because of that line, the moment you sign the document is the moment you testifying against yourself.

Now true, you can go 'fight' the citation. However, you are in dishonor by doing so because you're the one looking for conflict -- meaning you're looking to disrupt the peace. And if you begin proceedings, you can only deny the claim by stating 'not guilty'. You cannot state 'innocent' because your signature is one the citation saying that you believe you were speeding.

However, you can get around the citation by serving a signed and notarized Notice to the officer. And it is his duty to respond. If he doesn't, then you're no longer in violation of the bill. And yes, it is a bill.
Re: Well lets see... - daddy - Jul. 12th, 2007 02:07 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Well lets see... - duoraven - Jul. 12th, 2007 04:20 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Well lets see... - tigron_x - Jul. 12th, 2007 06:45 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Well lets see... - duoraven - Jul. 13th, 2007 03:48 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Well lets see... - tigron_x - Jul. 13th, 2007 08:26 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Well lets see... - duoraven - Jul. 13th, 2007 04:54 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Well lets see... - tigron_x - Jul. 13th, 2007 07:57 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Well lets see... - tigron_x - Jul. 13th, 2007 08:27 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Still speeding - duoraven - Jul. 13th, 2007 05:04 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Still speeding - tigron_x - Jul. 13th, 2007 07:05 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Still speeding - duoraven - Jul. 13th, 2007 07:47 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Still speeding - tigron_x - Jul. 14th, 2007 01:01 am (UTC) - Expand
Ever Hear of Due Process of Law? - duoraven - Jul. 15th, 2007 07:34 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Ever Hear of Due Process of Law? - tigron_x - Jul. 15th, 2007 11:27 pm (UTC) - Expand
From cynicism to Paranoia - duoraven - Jul. 16th, 2007 04:45 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: From cynicism to Paranoia - tigron_x - Jul. 16th, 2007 06:27 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: From cynicism to Paranoia - duoraven - Jul. 17th, 2007 03:34 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: From cynicism to Paranoia - tigron_x - Jul. 17th, 2007 05:02 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: From cynicism to Paranoia - duoraven - Jul. 19th, 2007 02:10 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: From cynicism to Paranoia - tigron_x - Jul. 19th, 2007 05:13 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: From cynicism to Paranoia - duoraven - Jul. 19th, 2007 03:48 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: From cynicism to Paranoia - tigron_x - Jul. 19th, 2007 07:12 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: From cynicism to Paranoia - duoraven - Jul. 19th, 2007 10:20 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: From cynicism to Paranoia - tigron_x - Jul. 20th, 2007 12:06 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: From cynicism to Paranoia - duoraven - Jul. 20th, 2007 01:12 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: From cynicism to Paranoia - tigron_x - Jul. 20th, 2007 04:45 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: From cynicism to Paranoia - duoraven - Jul. 20th, 2007 06:36 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: From cynicism to Paranoia - tigron_x - Jul. 20th, 2007 11:11 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: From cynicism to Paranoia - duoraven - Jul. 20th, 2007 06:15 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: From cynicism to Paranoia - tigron_x - Jul. 21st, 2007 03:31 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: From cynicism to Paranoia - duoraven - Jul. 21st, 2007 07:33 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: From cynicism to Paranoia - tigron_x - Jul. 22nd, 2007 12:00 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Conspiracy Therories - duoraven - Jul. 23rd, 2007 07:09 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Conspiracy Therories - tigron_x - Jul. 23rd, 2007 10:59 pm (UTC) - Expand
Argue This - tigron_x - Jul. 26th, 2007 04:35 am (UTC) - Expand
A Fraud, Pt 1 - duoraven - Jul. 20th, 2007 07:00 pm (UTC) - Expand
A Fraud, pt 2 - duoraven - Jul. 20th, 2007 07:01 pm (UTC) - Expand
( 148 comments — Leave a comment )

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